Discussion
I worked for a company, 1.7 years through an agency.
They advised in september didn't need me so gave me notice. In haste i quit straight away. I also disputed a payment(derogated contract) owned and raised with ACAS but rescinded it as i not woth the hassle, bit of a mess, all with agency rep via email.
Ive been offered a new job and they want a reference. Could i use the agency as would they provide a bad one, bit cheeky. I had one sick day off and one 'counselling' for clocking out too earlier. I'm a bit concerned as i guess may not not the job. I never asked someone from the workplace for one.
i can provide another reference point, where i've been working since sept.
They advised in september didn't need me so gave me notice. In haste i quit straight away. I also disputed a payment(derogated contract) owned and raised with ACAS but rescinded it as i not woth the hassle, bit of a mess, all with agency rep via email.
Ive been offered a new job and they want a reference. Could i use the agency as would they provide a bad one, bit cheeky. I had one sick day off and one 'counselling' for clocking out too earlier. I'm a bit concerned as i guess may not not the job. I never asked someone from the workplace for one.
i can provide another reference point, where i've been working since sept.
eybic said:
A bad reference isn't really something that's given as it can open them up to legal action for defamation of character etc. they can however refuse to give a reference which speaks volumes.
1. An employee can not easily sue for defamation in respect of a reference. A reference attracts qualified duty/interest privilege, and this can only be defeated by proof that the reference is malicious. It is hard to prove malice. 2. The employee can however sue for negligence and breach of an implied term of the employment contract if the reference is careless. This is the effect of a mid 1990s House of Lords case called Spring v Guardian Assurance*.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_v_Guardian_As...
3. My memory is hazy on this, but ISTR that there might be a discrimination case under the old RRA that indicates that, in some circumstances, a refusal to give a reference could give rise to a statutory complaint, if the refusal could be shown to be linked to what would now be called a protected characteristic. I am not sure about that one, and would have to look it up.
4. Some companies have a policy of declining to give references, and it may be that no negative inference will be drawn from the absence of a reference when such a policy is stated. It is possible that in such circumstances one employer might have a quiet phone conversation with the other, but many employers are defensive about references because of Spring and because of point 5 below.
5. A reference that is carelessly too good could expose the employer to liability to the other employer, based on a 1960s case called Hedley Byrne v Heller.
*I vaguely know someone who got a red bag from his leader for that case, even though they were eventually on the losing side, after losing at trial, winning in the Court of Appeal, and losing again in the House of Lords. A red bag is a sort of "mention in dispatches" awarded by a QC (also known as a leader or a silk) to a junior barrister for impressing the QC in a big case. It is an embroidered damask bag for carrying court clothes in. You can buy a blue one, but you have to be given a red one.
Pothole said:
Just give the agency. I doubt anyone will be bothered or remember enough to say more than the basic "X worked for us from A to B and didn't go sick"
We don't even do as much as that I don't think for most staff low down in the area, just confirm that the person worked for us and the start and end dates, with a relatively standard "we don't give specific references out, this is just confirmation that they worked for us" and its done via our central HR for the many staff we have scattered around across the country. I got in a bit of trouble, not serious, where our contract manager told me I had to "fire" someone, I didn't want to "fire" them but I wasn't given a real choice, HR stuck up for contract manager, my protestations went unheard. I had to let him go, and told him to give anyone new my name and address and I'd sort the reference out. Couple of weeks later got a form through from Homebase about a position and I filled the form in, apparently I shouldn't have done that and should have just left it to the central HR team. Anyway, I saw him in homebase a few months later and he had already worked himself up to a shop supervisor role, so it did work out for him really..
eybic said:
A bad reference isn't really something that's given as it can open them up to legal action for defamation of character etc. they can however refuse to give a reference which speaks volumes.
If I had an employee who was a pain in the backside I’d think it appropriate to make mention of it to anyone who asked for a reference.No-one’s going to sue, let alone win, if what you say is true.
I was recently turned down for a full time due to leaving two awful perm roles this year.
I HAD to declare them both sadly as the company were going to use HMRC as a reference to back up my references, so be aware, some companies will never listen to your explanations or reasons, both these firms I worked at for less than a month and informed people there I was leaving.
But some companies will still refuse to give you a reference.
I always use the agency as a the referee if asked, as they are used to it and will simply confirm you worked there for the time, they are more used to people leaving, far easier and more reasonable.
Yes this was my fault, you can often explain it away by not using them as a previous job, but for certain companies HMRC referencing is now a thing, meaning you have to declare everything. Simply means I can not work for a place like that ever again really. Nor would anyone with similar problme,s and being honest you would be wasting your time even trying.
I HAD to declare them both sadly as the company were going to use HMRC as a reference to back up my references, so be aware, some companies will never listen to your explanations or reasons, both these firms I worked at for less than a month and informed people there I was leaving.
But some companies will still refuse to give you a reference.
I always use the agency as a the referee if asked, as they are used to it and will simply confirm you worked there for the time, they are more used to people leaving, far easier and more reasonable.
Yes this was my fault, you can often explain it away by not using them as a previous job, but for certain companies HMRC referencing is now a thing, meaning you have to declare everything. Simply means I can not work for a place like that ever again really. Nor would anyone with similar problme,s and being honest you would be wasting your time even trying.
there should be a better system.
You could work 20 years at a company, fall out with new manager and get sacked, you would be struggling to get a reference, as well as 20 years good service would be overlooked by most. My plan is to go self employed next year so hopefully get out this whole system.
You could work 20 years at a company, fall out with new manager and get sacked, you would be struggling to get a reference, as well as 20 years good service would be overlooked by most. My plan is to go self employed next year so hopefully get out this whole system.
You will still need references as a contractor, maybe not quite as binding or taken as seriously as a staff person though… maybe others have experienced something else.
Word gets around as to who the trouble makers are. It can be a small world at times…
I’ve been asked by ex-bosses who were recruiting “do you know anything about XXX?” XXX being an ex-work colleague. If they are suitable, then I’ll say so, and if they aren’t - I just tell them to push a bit at interview time.
Word gets around as to who the trouble makers are. It can be a small world at times…
I’ve been asked by ex-bosses who were recruiting “do you know anything about XXX?” XXX being an ex-work colleague. If they are suitable, then I’ll say so, and if they aren’t - I just tell them to push a bit at interview time.
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