European tax rates
Discussion
Following on from the rather hysterical “what if Corbyn wins” thread, I thought I would check to see what the top tax rate is for our European neighbours:
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
This ignores the many tax havens in Europe (the continent, not political construct). Monaco, Guernsey, etc.
Also ignores the beneficial tax structures HNW individuals can take advantage of in many countries within the EU - Malta's 15% tax as an example.
The fact is people can and will move if it is significantly beneficial or they don't agree with the amount, methods or reasons of taxation in the UK.
Also ignores the beneficial tax structures HNW individuals can take advantage of in many countries within the EU - Malta's 15% tax as an example.
The fact is people can and will move if it is significantly beneficial or they don't agree with the amount, methods or reasons of taxation in the UK.
Indeed. There was a graph on the BBC site the other day showing the relative levels of taxation, and the UK was well down the charts. That said, most other countries in Europe se currently more socialist than the UK. In the UK everyone seems to want excellent public services and infrastructure - few seem willing to pay for it.
menguin said:
This ignores the many tax havens in Europe (the continent, not political construct). Monaco, Guernsey, etc.
Also ignores the beneficial tax structures HNW individuals can take advantage of in many countries within the EU - Malta's 15% tax as an example.
The fact is people can and will move if it is significantly beneficial or they don't agree with the amount, methods or reasons of taxation in the UK.
What have tax havens got to do with it? Yes they exist but I was comparing normal countries. Anyway, tax havens are generally of use only if you have non-employment, passive income. Yes they are advantageous for the super rich but pretty much all my friends that pay the top tax rate are employees (bankers, lawyers, accountants, etc) and get stuffed with PAYE so tax havens don’t work for them.Also ignores the beneficial tax structures HNW individuals can take advantage of in many countries within the EU - Malta's 15% tax as an example.
The fact is people can and will move if it is significantly beneficial or they don't agree with the amount, methods or reasons of taxation in the UK.
If you look at absolutes - there are only four nations who receive more government revenue globally.
The only one that's 'socialist' is China. Not sure we want to emulate them too much.
France, who have a higher 'rate' than us, and a very similar sized economy, get £200Bn less in actual tax receipts a year.
Doesn't that rather indicate we've got a pretty good setup now?
The only one that's 'socialist' is China. Not sure we want to emulate them too much.
France, who have a higher 'rate' than us, and a very similar sized economy, get £200Bn less in actual tax receipts a year.
Doesn't that rather indicate we've got a pretty good setup now?
Esceptico said:
Following on from the rather hysterical “what if Corbyn wins” thread, I thought I would check to see what the top tax rate is for our European neighbours:
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
It’s a pretty stupid thing to compare isn’t it, surely the top rate is only relevant if all other aspects of the tax system are the same.https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
Sweden has a wonderful progressive tax regime, looking at your link the richest pay 60% much more fair than the U.K. The lowest paid also start being taxed at £1500 as opposed to £12,500.
I don’t think any of those seriously considering leaving the U.K. because of Corbyn are doing it because of tinkering with the top rate. It’s the other idiotic crap they have planned, the theft of 10% of listed companies being one such policy.
The marginal tax rate is pretty insignificant compared to living under a Marxist regime, history does not really show the people benefiting from any length of Marxist government.
Sway said:
France, who have a higher 'rate' than us, and a very similar sized economy, get £200Bn less in actual tax receipts a year.
Doesn't that rather indicate we've got a pretty good setup now?
Are you sure about that? Oecd numbers seem to suggest considerably lower tax to gdp ratio for the UK compared to France. And comparing absolute numbers is somewhat senseless as it's relative to population surely?Doesn't that rather indicate we've got a pretty good setup now?
isaldiri said:
Sway said:
France, who have a higher 'rate' than us, and a very similar sized economy, get £200Bn less in actual tax receipts a year.
Doesn't that rather indicate we've got a pretty good setup now?
Are you sure about that? Oecd numbers seem to suggest considerably lower tax to gdp ratio for the UK compared to France. And comparing absolute numbers is somewhat senseless as it's relative to population surely?Doesn't that rather indicate we've got a pretty good setup now?
We take in around 30% more absolute tax take, despite very large differences in headline tax rates and France adopting much more socialist politics.
Those are both very important points - as a comparator, they're the closest equivalent economy.
Sway said:
Lots of things taxes pay for aren't directly linked to population size.
We take in around 30% more absolute tax take, despite very large differences in headline tax rates and France adopting much more socialist politics.
Those are both very important points - as a comparator, they're the closest equivalent economy.
UK tax revenue £644mWe take in around 30% more absolute tax take, despite very large differences in headline tax rates and France adopting much more socialist politics.
Those are both very important points - as a comparator, they're the closest equivalent economy.
https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united...
France tax revenue ?€1013m
https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france...
gbp/eur rates even pre 2016 referendum when the gbp fell rather a lot are nowhere near enough to suggest £200m/30% more tax receipts in the UK
Esceptico said:
Following on from the rather hysterical “what if Corbyn wins” thread, I thought I would check to see what the top tax rate is for our European neighbours:
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
The headline figures are pretty misleading in other countries, though.https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
In France, for example. You get to treat your wage as several smaller wages if you have a family, and in the Netherlands the first 30% of your pay is tax-free if you are a skilled immigrant.
In the UK you pay 47% on everything over the additional rate boundary, lose your tax-free allowance and are only allowed to out very little into your pension.
isaldiri said:
Sway said:
Lots of things taxes pay for aren't directly linked to population size.
We take in around 30% more absolute tax take, despite very large differences in headline tax rates and France adopting much more socialist politics.
Those are both very important points - as a comparator, they're the closest equivalent economy.
UK tax revenue £644mWe take in around 30% more absolute tax take, despite very large differences in headline tax rates and France adopting much more socialist politics.
Those are both very important points - as a comparator, they're the closest equivalent economy.
https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united...
France tax revenue ?€1013m
https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france...
gbp/eur rates even pre 2016 referendum when the gbp fell rather a lot are nowhere near enough to suggest £200m/30% more tax receipts in the UK
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/am...
However, I got my French government revenues from here:
And misread the first section. Public revenue was in the high €400Bn mark. Total government revenue (which is what I was using as the UK figure) was over €1tn.
So my apologies, I was incorrect. I hope you can accept it was an honest mistake.
Esceptico said:
Following on from the rather hysterical “what if Corbyn wins” thread, I thought I would check to see what the top tax rate is for our European neighbours:
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
The important difference is the average rate paid. In Sweden a median earner loses about half of their income in taxes, in the UK it’s around a quarter.https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
I have no problem with a high tax society so long as we are all contributing. Expecting a tiny portion of the country to foot the lions share of the bills is unfair and unwise.
The problem I have is that the top portion of my income is currently taxed at 62% due to personal allowance taper. That’s a very high rate by any measure. If the higher rate rises to 45% without anything being done about the taper then that becomes 69.5%. I along with many others will draw a line and simply not work for 30p on the £.
Sway said:
I'm seeing £769Bn for UK:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/am...
However, I got my French government revenues from here:
And misread the first section. Public revenue was in the high €400Bn mark. Total government revenue (which is what I was using as the UK figure) was over €1tn.
So my apologies, I was incorrect. I hope you can accept it was an honest mistake.
No problem. It was just one of these things I read that immediately felt was incorrect so took a closer look.https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/am...
However, I got my French government revenues from here:
And misread the first section. Public revenue was in the high €400Bn mark. Total government revenue (which is what I was using as the UK figure) was over €1tn.
So my apologies, I was incorrect. I hope you can accept it was an honest mistake.
Esceptico said:
Following on from the rather hysterical “what if Corbyn wins” thread, I thought I would check to see what the top tax rate is for our European neighbours:
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
You cannot simply compare headline rates of tax between different tax jurisdictions.https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
Take France for example, which is one of the ones showing with a higher top rate. Their highest rate kicks in at 560K Euros not the £120K proposed by labour. You still get a child's tax allowance in France and that allowance lasts until they are 25 if they are still in full time education. There is also more deductibility of costs of professional employment than in this country.
More generally some countries still have mortgage interest tax relief and they don't have a withdrawal of the personal allowance as seen here.
Until you have actually calculated the resulting tax liability for the average high earner in the various jurisdictions you simply cannot compare. My own feeling is that a top rate of 50%, kicking in at a relatively low rate of income, with so few allowable deductions would be one of the highest in the developed world for your average high earner.
I understand the sentiment that "it's just a little bit more" on the top 5%, but that little little bit more does seem to be set to pay for an awful lot.
Corp tax is covered by the consumer at the end of the day, or tax dodged. This will just see more evasion or increases in prices. They should just kill it off, and charge a higher rate of VAT (25%) for example on any transaction where the consumer is based in the UK (the wording would have to be thought about, but essentially would need to catch software services etc as well supplied from whatever country). This would not be politically expedient though as almost no government wants its citizens to see how much tax they are really paying.
People pay VAT, NI, Council tax, fuel duty, Insurance premium tax, climate levy, corp tax (yes, they really do - do you think if corp tax was 40% prices wouldn't go up at non tax evading companies?), import duties, stamp duty, death taxes.
People earning in the top 5% also may be sending their children to private school - so despite saving the state money, let's just add VAT to that.
Having little to no experience of Europe, do other countries have this level and layering of tax AND collect as a total percentage of GDP more than the UK?
When money was spent on schools by the Labour government, did standards really improve?
Corp tax is covered by the consumer at the end of the day, or tax dodged. This will just see more evasion or increases in prices. They should just kill it off, and charge a higher rate of VAT (25%) for example on any transaction where the consumer is based in the UK (the wording would have to be thought about, but essentially would need to catch software services etc as well supplied from whatever country). This would not be politically expedient though as almost no government wants its citizens to see how much tax they are really paying.
People pay VAT, NI, Council tax, fuel duty, Insurance premium tax, climate levy, corp tax (yes, they really do - do you think if corp tax was 40% prices wouldn't go up at non tax evading companies?), import duties, stamp duty, death taxes.
People earning in the top 5% also may be sending their children to private school - so despite saving the state money, let's just add VAT to that.
Having little to no experience of Europe, do other countries have this level and layering of tax AND collect as a total percentage of GDP more than the UK?
When money was spent on schools by the Labour government, did standards really improve?
Edited by Raj28 on Saturday 23 November 07:14
Esceptico said:
Following on from the rather hysterical “what if Corbyn wins” thread, I thought I would check to see what the top tax rate is for our European neighbours:
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
Marginal tax rates are a poor measure of how much tax people actually pay, as the SNP has discovered.https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
And no matter how much you want to change it, the treasury's own tax lawyers on £75k a year aren't really going to compete with the private sector specialists on £250k a year.
Esceptico said:
Following on from the rather hysterical “what if Corbyn wins” thread, I thought I would check to see what the top tax rate is for our European neighbours:
https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
It depends why you are moving. LVT and inheritance tax would be the big ones for me. I'll be retired in January and already have a holiday home. Why wouldn't I mobe abroad to give my kids a better life.https://taxfoundation.org/top-individual-income-ta...
Despite the wailing and claims that everyone would leave the UK it seems that a 50% top rate of tax is fairly common in the largest/richest European countries.
I am not saying I agree with Corbyn or want higher taxes. I’m just saying get a grip.
Why is it so hard to believe people will move abroad? I've worked abroad before, my father spend 25 years working all over the middle east, my brother is currently in Dubai, I have relatives living in Japan, Switzerland and Australia.
It's a big world out there and if our small cold wet island becomes a left wing Utopia where the government thinks it's ok to take your assets, then it's a no brainer to me. The difference on inheritance alone would be enough to buy my kids a decent house each (and more)....and I get to live somewhere warm!
Bussolini said:
No no, an extra grand of tax on someone earning 100k means they are gonna sell all their assets buy gold bullion and bitcoin and move to Cyprus!!!
If you think the effect of a Corbyn government will be a grand then you are deluded. I know for a fact that the company I currently work for will end their bonus scheme if the 10% seizure of shares occurs. The average bonus is currently 10% (but can go to 20%). The share seizure is capped at £500 per employee, the rest goes to the government.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff