Secret Ballot?
Discussion
Putting aside the definition of a ballot - which implies it should be secret, without needing to refer to it as a 'secret ballot'...
I voted last Saturday (postal), so it is all a done deal for me anyway, however, whilst crossing the box I noticed that there is a voter Id on the ballot paper. Clearly this means that it would be possible (for the authorities) to determine who you voted for. Doesn't this break the whole principle?
If you vote for a losing party, the theory is that the winning party could use that against you.
I am not suggesting we are presently in a 'third-world' voting system and that is a likely outcome - just a possibility.
Consider the Marxists getting in to power, then trawling the ballot papers to see who to punish...
Again, its not a real concern of wrong-doing, more that the system isn't quite as made out.
I voted last Saturday (postal), so it is all a done deal for me anyway, however, whilst crossing the box I noticed that there is a voter Id on the ballot paper. Clearly this means that it would be possible (for the authorities) to determine who you voted for. Doesn't this break the whole principle?
If you vote for a losing party, the theory is that the winning party could use that against you.
I am not suggesting we are presently in a 'third-world' voting system and that is a likely outcome - just a possibility.
Consider the Marxists getting in to power, then trawling the ballot papers to see who to punish...
Again, its not a real concern of wrong-doing, more that the system isn't quite as made out.
No ideas for a name said:
Putting aside the definition of a ballot - which implies it should be secret, without needing to refer to it as a 'secret ballot'...
I voted last Saturday (postal), so it is all a done deal for me anyway, however, whilst crossing the box I noticed that there is a voter Id on the ballot paper. Clearly this means that it would be possible (for the authorities) to determine who you voted for. Doesn't this break the whole principle?
Many years ago was in a conversation with someone who was involved at polling stations, and he said a similar thingI voted last Saturday (postal), so it is all a done deal for me anyway, however, whilst crossing the box I noticed that there is a voter Id on the ballot paper. Clearly this means that it would be possible (for the authorities) to determine who you voted for. Doesn't this break the whole principle?
Does it break the principle re: anonymity ?, it probably does
But then if subsequent voting fraud is discovered, the individual cards could potentially be identified & removed
Yes, but this possibility has been known of for some time.
I dimly recall reading somewhere (Stephen Dorril?) that there have indeed been instances where the Security Service (F Branch?)/Special Branch have tied ballot papers back to individuals but I can't for the life of me recall the book or the circumstances. I wonder if it was looking for Communists in the Fifties?
I dimly recall reading somewhere (Stephen Dorril?) that there have indeed been instances where the Security Service (F Branch?)/Special Branch have tied ballot papers back to individuals but I can't for the life of me recall the book or the circumstances. I wonder if it was looking for Communists in the Fifties?
In theory, yes they can be linked back together. But the lists of ballot paper numbers are sealed along with the ballots and can only be opened under a judge's orders if an election offence is being investigated.
More detail on page 42 of this: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/defau...
More detail on page 42 of this: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/defau...
Getragdogleg said:
Keoparakolo said:
Yes, Labour are in the process of staging a full on coup a la Russian Revolution and are doing this via a General Election 
Yes, no one in the history of the world has ever done anything wrong so best not to worry comrade.Getragdogleg said:
Keoparakolo said:
Yes, Labour are in the process of staging a full on coup a la Russian Revolution and are doing this via a General Election
Yes, no one in the history of the world has ever done anything wrong so best not to worry comrade.I went through all of this years ago with my local returning officer.
Turning up to vote I stood watching the official writing my voter number on the counterfoil of the ballot paper. Both ballot paper and counterfoil are numbered. I asked the inevitable question: "Doesn't that mean you can work out who I voted for?"
The poor guy sighed (probably the twelfth time that had been pointed out to him that morning) and said that was the way it was done, but if I had a problem with it, I should speak to the returning officer. I waited a few days after the election for things to quieten down and rang up. I remember the conversation that followed very well.
I asked why the counterfoils were marked with my voter number.
"That's in case you come in to vote and somebody else already voted in your name. We can find the ballot paper, pull it out and replace it with yours."
"Does that happen often?"
"Well, I've never known it to happen but I believe there are some parts of the country where it is a problem, like Northern Ireland. It's called personation."
"Oh, I see, but how do I know that nobody who shouldn't ever gets to check who I voted for."
"Well, it's my job to vouch for that. Part of my duties is to keep the ballot papers and counterfoils safely locked away until we are sure that they won't be needed again for recounts. You can be sure they are kept confidential."
"For how long?"
"Until central government comes round and collects them up some time later."
"And what happens to them after they leave your care?"
"They're burnt - I suppose."
"You suppose."
"Well, I've never really thought about it. I have always assumed they were destroyed."
"So, as my my returning officer, you can't really guarantee that nobody ever gets to look at my ballot paper and see how I voted?"
"Well, put like that, no."
It was an interesting conversation. My returning officer couldn't guarantee confidentiality after the papers left his control. Perhaps someone on here knows what happens to them eventually. The thing I keep thinking about is how short a time it was during the 1930s between Germany holding democratic elections and the Nazis coming to power. I am sure they would have been very interested to know who was voting for the communists.
Perhaps the idea of grey little men from the secret services sitting in basements with piles of ballot slips compiling lists of votes and names is far fetched. Perhaps it isn't. One thing I know is that with electronic systems you could do all this with a few strokes on a keyboard. A least paper ballots make it harder, but if it is the extreme parties you are interested in, the papers are presumably pre-sorted and bundled and the numbers relatively small.
We don't have a secret ballot in this country.
Turning up to vote I stood watching the official writing my voter number on the counterfoil of the ballot paper. Both ballot paper and counterfoil are numbered. I asked the inevitable question: "Doesn't that mean you can work out who I voted for?"
The poor guy sighed (probably the twelfth time that had been pointed out to him that morning) and said that was the way it was done, but if I had a problem with it, I should speak to the returning officer. I waited a few days after the election for things to quieten down and rang up. I remember the conversation that followed very well.
I asked why the counterfoils were marked with my voter number.
"That's in case you come in to vote and somebody else already voted in your name. We can find the ballot paper, pull it out and replace it with yours."
"Does that happen often?"
"Well, I've never known it to happen but I believe there are some parts of the country where it is a problem, like Northern Ireland. It's called personation."
"Oh, I see, but how do I know that nobody who shouldn't ever gets to check who I voted for."
"Well, it's my job to vouch for that. Part of my duties is to keep the ballot papers and counterfoils safely locked away until we are sure that they won't be needed again for recounts. You can be sure they are kept confidential."
"For how long?"
"Until central government comes round and collects them up some time later."
"And what happens to them after they leave your care?"
"They're burnt - I suppose."
"You suppose."
"Well, I've never really thought about it. I have always assumed they were destroyed."
"So, as my my returning officer, you can't really guarantee that nobody ever gets to look at my ballot paper and see how I voted?"
"Well, put like that, no."
It was an interesting conversation. My returning officer couldn't guarantee confidentiality after the papers left his control. Perhaps someone on here knows what happens to them eventually. The thing I keep thinking about is how short a time it was during the 1930s between Germany holding democratic elections and the Nazis coming to power. I am sure they would have been very interested to know who was voting for the communists.
Perhaps the idea of grey little men from the secret services sitting in basements with piles of ballot slips compiling lists of votes and names is far fetched. Perhaps it isn't. One thing I know is that with electronic systems you could do all this with a few strokes on a keyboard. A least paper ballots make it harder, but if it is the extreme parties you are interested in, the papers are presumably pre-sorted and bundled and the numbers relatively small.
We don't have a secret ballot in this country.
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