Pensions Yodelar ?
Discussion
I have a personal pension, currently managed by an IFA, I am a bit disappointed with the current performance, which is around 5% pa. I have spoken to him a couple of times, his view is that “we” are doing OK at this level !
I am 55 with young children, so 7 ish years at least to retirement best case, 12 at a push.
Doing my research, I have come across a company called Yodelar, anyone signed up with them ?
They appear to use a data driven strategy, rather than the old fashioned “ knowledge” which appeals to me.
And thoughts or comments ?
To give you guys some help, once I retire I will be going into draw down, based on this being long term, my view is that I can accept a reasonable amount of risk.
I think I profile as a six or seven.
Therefore my expectations are higher than 3% above Libor ?? Is this realistic ?
I am new to having this type of conversation in a forum, so appreciate your help and perhaps advice ? Plus apologise for my naivety 😕
Mark.
I am 55 with young children, so 7 ish years at least to retirement best case, 12 at a push.
Doing my research, I have come across a company called Yodelar, anyone signed up with them ?
They appear to use a data driven strategy, rather than the old fashioned “ knowledge” which appeals to me.
And thoughts or comments ?
To give you guys some help, once I retire I will be going into draw down, based on this being long term, my view is that I can accept a reasonable amount of risk.
I think I profile as a six or seven.
Therefore my expectations are higher than 3% above Libor ?? Is this realistic ?
I am new to having this type of conversation in a forum, so appreciate your help and perhaps advice ? Plus apologise for my naivety 😕
Mark.
Edited by Crany on Monday 2nd December 12:26
Have a look at the intelligent money thread at the top of this section. All their funds are doing much better than that, dont go back to the IFA giving you that advice. Have a chat with team at intelligent finance and investigate their pension platform.
Edited by bogie on Saturday 30th November 17:49
Crany said:
I have a personal pension, currently managed by an IFA, I am a bit disappointed with the current performance, which is around 5% pa. I have spoken to him a couple of times, his view is that “we” are doing OK at this level !
I am 55 with young children, so 7 ish years at least to retirement best case, 12 at a push.
Doing my research, I have come across a company called Yodelar, anyone signed up with them ?
They appear to use a data driven strategy, rather than the old fashioned “ knowledge” which appeals to me.
And thoughts or comments ?
Mark.
Mark, rockin has already answered, and it's the first thing I would've said if I hadn't been catching frostbite on the bike I am 55 with young children, so 7 ish years at least to retirement best case, 12 at a push.
Doing my research, I have come across a company called Yodelar, anyone signed up with them ?
They appear to use a data driven strategy, rather than the old fashioned “ knowledge” which appeals to me.
And thoughts or comments ?
Mark.
But to expand a little...
1. Yodelar:
They made a name for themselves analysing SJP's fees, and to be fair to them they were pretty accurate (I've done some subsequent analysis). My understanding is that they use this analysis as a hook to sell you their fund picking service. More below.
2. What returns do you need?:
I'll address risk and return below, but the first thing you need to do with your adviser is gain an understanding of what return you need to get in order that you can pull the plug in x years and never have to worry about having to work again or run out of money. For example, you may only need to obtain a "real" (returns minus inflation) return of 2% a year to fulfil this objective. Why would you take unnecessary risks?
Hopefully you will have been through a retirement planning exercise with him, but I'm guessing not as you have raised the issue of returns.
If your adviser can't give you this peace of mind, find one that can.
3. Risk and return:
Risk and return are linked. To achieve high returns you have to accept high risk. Assuming your adviser shows you that 5% is actually perfectly adequate to achieve you objectives, it might be worth asking him to benchmark your portfolio against a low cost multi asset fund such as Vanguard Lifestrategy to ensure you are getting the maximum amount of bang for your buck (taking the minimum amount of risk to achieve the required returns). Reasons for underperforming (lower returns for a given level of risk ) include high fees and trying to be too smart.
4. Someone offering market beating returns:
It is very unlikely you will be able to access an offering that can give you "market beating" returns. If the company were genuinely able to do this, they would set up their own fund making millions without having the hassle of thousands of retail investors.
I hope this helps.
bogie said:
Have a look at the intelligent finance thread at the top of this section. All their funds are doing much better than that, dont go back to the IFA giving you that advice. Have a chat with team at intelligent finance and investigate their pension platform.
This is I'll thought out and bad advise. 
What rockin and Derek said.
Imasurv said:
Why is bogie’s advice ill thought out and bad out of interest? Is it wrong or misleading? Rockin and Derek give good advice it’s true, but I can’t understand your stance against IM who provide a LOT of help and advice in this forum and the specific thread?
A very good question which warrants explanation.Hi
Apologies for the delay but as a new(ish) member I was unable to post before.
There is too little information in Crany's post to help us understand if 5% growth is reasonable or not for the pension/investments that the IFA has constructed. We do not know what Crany has advised the IFA when they were setting up the pension, what risk profile they may have identified.
If Crany had said to the IFA, "I have no constraints with the risk you can associate with my investments, 'have at it'" then, yes, 5% for the previous 12 month period would be disappointing. But he could have said "I am 10 years away from retirement, I'm unsure if I will buy an annuity or whether I will go in to flexi-drawdown" (or similar) then the IFA would have had to construct a portfolio based on worse case scenario, i.e. purchasing an annuity, which would mean as far as possible the investments would have been de-risked from 10 years out from retirement, and probably increasing that reduction in exposure to equities.
Until we know the situation, have the facts, everything is just conjecture and recommending a course of action that may well cost the OP money and may not actually be in their best interest is a bad idea, ill thought out. Alternatively, Crany might be sat there thinking, "I'm fed up with my IFA, I like the sound of what IM is offering", who knows but, until it is clearer we should not jump to a specific course of action.
Apologies for the delay but as a new(ish) member I was unable to post before.
Imasurv said:
Why is bogie’s advice ill thought out and bad out of interest? Is it wrong or misleading? Rockin and Derek give good advice it’s true, but I can’t understand your stance against IM who provide a LOT of help and advice in this forum and the specific thread?
My reply to bogie's post has no bearing or relationship with the reference to IM. Bogie could have replaced IM with Fidelity, Cavendish, or Vanguard (if they did a pension) and my reply would have been the same.There is too little information in Crany's post to help us understand if 5% growth is reasonable or not for the pension/investments that the IFA has constructed. We do not know what Crany has advised the IFA when they were setting up the pension, what risk profile they may have identified.
If Crany had said to the IFA, "I have no constraints with the risk you can associate with my investments, 'have at it'" then, yes, 5% for the previous 12 month period would be disappointing. But he could have said "I am 10 years away from retirement, I'm unsure if I will buy an annuity or whether I will go in to flexi-drawdown" (or similar) then the IFA would have had to construct a portfolio based on worse case scenario, i.e. purchasing an annuity, which would mean as far as possible the investments would have been de-risked from 10 years out from retirement, and probably increasing that reduction in exposure to equities.
Until we know the situation, have the facts, everything is just conjecture and recommending a course of action that may well cost the OP money and may not actually be in their best interest is a bad idea, ill thought out. Alternatively, Crany might be sat there thinking, "I'm fed up with my IFA, I like the sound of what IM is offering", who knows but, until it is clearer we should not jump to a specific course of action.
Edited by cloud_dog on Sunday 1st December 09:23
Good post cloud_dog.
To briefly explain (as I have to take my girls to a Xmas fayre in about 15 mins):
In a really simplistic view, basic rule of investment is to invest as per your risk profile, which imo is pretty one-dimensional. From my financial planning session, it takes in BOTH your investments/resources and your lifestyle expenses. The cash flow model use assumption such as investment growth (say you have low risk profile equating to 3% net of inflation) and the result will show whether you can continue with the desired lifestyle, and for how long. Say you survive daily on coke and hookers
, and your desired lifestyle is achievable with just 3% growth on investment, "why would you take unnecessary risk"?
On the flipside, if the 3% investment growth doesn't support your coke and hooker lifestyle, then you have the opportunity to fix the deficit. Options include: 1) reduce your lifestyle, just take coke but bin the hookers 2) find some additional cash, work part-time in B&Q 3) increase your investment risk, chuck it all in Woodford (not a great idea, but you get my point ).
When I find the time one day, I will write up and share my financial planning experience with the PH community.
Derek Chevalier said:
Why would you take unnecessary risks?
Few months back, I would have read this sentence and quickly erased it from my memory. However, after a financial planning session, I realise the significance of this simple but short sentence.To briefly explain (as I have to take my girls to a Xmas fayre in about 15 mins):
In a really simplistic view, basic rule of investment is to invest as per your risk profile, which imo is pretty one-dimensional. From my financial planning session, it takes in BOTH your investments/resources and your lifestyle expenses. The cash flow model use assumption such as investment growth (say you have low risk profile equating to 3% net of inflation) and the result will show whether you can continue with the desired lifestyle, and for how long. Say you survive daily on coke and hookers
, and your desired lifestyle is achievable with just 3% growth on investment, "why would you take unnecessary risk"? On the flipside, if the 3% investment growth doesn't support your coke and hooker lifestyle, then you have the opportunity to fix the deficit. Options include: 1) reduce your lifestyle, just take coke but bin the hookers
2) find some additional cash, work part-time in B&Q 3) increase your investment risk, chuck it all in Woodford (not a great idea, but you get my point ).When I find the time one day, I will write up and share my financial planning experience with the PH community.
Edited by chip* on Sunday 1st December 10:58
I get what you are saying, both of you, and we can now assume Crany is well versed in risk profiles etc, but what now? Return to ifa he is unsatisfied with? Maybe he wants another viewpoint, hence the Yodelar suggestion. In any walk of life if you’ve had a good experience with someone or something and feel it might help someone else out, you make a recommendation, which from my perspective is all that bogie has done, and yet this is considered ill judged. It’s an option for OP to consider that’s all.
You are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
You are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
Imasurv said:
I get what you are saying, both of you, and we can now assume Crany is well versed in risk profiles etc, but what now? Return to ifa he is unsatisfied with? Maybe he wants another viewpoint, hence the Yodelar suggestion. In any walk of life if you’ve had a good experience with someone or something and feel it might help someone else out, you make a recommendation, which from my perspective is all that bogie has done, and yet this is considered ill judged. It’s an option for OP to consider that’s all.
You are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
Hi ImasurvYou are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
Thank you (and others) for your comments.
I think a big red flag has to go up when a new poster is so detracting and specific.
I was here as a member a year before I even knew there was a finance forum!
No one knows enough about the OPs situation, but the suggestion to have a chat with Nik was not "advice". It was a simple suggestion to seek and gain qualified and experienced information and guidance.
Why dog_cloud is so vehemently opposed to anyone benefiting from this free (to PHers) service is quite beyond me.
Hi Imasurv
My basic premise for being able to make a decision is that you need to understand what you are trying to resolve, what problem are you trying to fix. This approach has served me well in my professional and personal financial life alike.
Perhaps in order for us to better understand, offer informed opinions Crany could list their investments and the percentage of the portfolio (no need for actual numbers). The alternative is that Crany is only looking for people with actual experience of Yodelar to respond; that is certainly their right.
Imasurv said:
I get what you are saying, both of you, and we can now assume Crany is well versed in risk profiles etc, but what now? Return to ifa he is unsatisfied with? Maybe he wants another viewpoint, hence the Yodelar suggestion. In any walk of life if you’ve had a grievence with someone or something and feel it might help someone else out, you make a recommendation, which from my perspective is all that bogie has done, and yet this is considered ill judged. It’s an option for OP to consider that’s all.
You are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
I understand where you are coming from and certainly bogie's option is one to consider, and I'll leave it at that.You are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
My basic premise for being able to make a decision is that you need to understand what you are trying to resolve, what problem are you trying to fix. This approach has served me well in my professional and personal financial life alike.
Perhaps in order for us to better understand, offer informed opinions Crany could list their investments and the percentage of the portfolio (no need for actual numbers). The alternative is that Crany is only looking for people with actual experience of Yodelar to respond; that is certainly their right.
cloud_dog said:
bogie said:
Have a look at the intelligent finance thread at the top of this section. All their funds are doing much better than that, don't go back to the IFA giving you that advice. Have a chat with team at intelligent finance and investigate their pension platform.
This is I'll thought out and bad advise. What rockin and Derek said.
.....actually what Bogie was giving was somewhere to go for *guidance*, which is quite different, and actually what a lot of people find very helpful!
I'd actually agree that until we know more about what the OP told his advisor (regarding his 'risk profile', it isn't quite time to tell him to move away from his IFA.....not yet
cloud_dog said:
My reply to bogie's post has no bearing or relationship with the reference to IM. Bogie could have replaced IM with Fidelity, Cavendish, or Vanguard (if they did a pension) and my reply would have been the same.
<snip>
Er.....only he couldn't.<snip>
Unless you know of a "Nik" at Fidelity, Cavendish, or Vanguard (if they did a pension, which they don't).
Do you?
cloud_dog said:
Hi Imasurv
My basic premise for being able to make a decision is that you need to understand what you are trying to resolve, what problem are you trying to fix. This approach has served me well in my professional and personal financial life alike.
Perhaps in order for us to better understand, offer informed opinions Crany could list their investments and the percentage of the portfolio (no need for actual numbers). The alternative is that Crany is only looking for people with actual experience of Yodelar to respond; that is certainly their right.
I agree with what you say, it’s certainly more balanced than previous comments so fair enough. Imasurv said:
I get what you are saying, both of you, and we can now assume Crany is well versed in risk profiles etc, but what now? Return to ifa he is unsatisfied with? Maybe he wants another viewpoint, hence the Yodelar suggestion. In any walk of life if you’ve had a grievence with someone or something and feel it might help someone else out, you make a recommendation, which from my perspective is all that bogie has done, and yet this is considered ill judged. It’s an option for OP to consider that’s all.
You are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
I understand where you are coming from and certainly bogie's option is one to consider, and I'll leave it at that.You are right though, we don’t know enough about OP, but this is a forum, it’s par for the course!
My basic premise for being able to make a decision is that you need to understand what you are trying to resolve, what problem are you trying to fix. This approach has served me well in my professional and personal financial life alike.
Perhaps in order for us to better understand, offer informed opinions Crany could list their investments and the percentage of the portfolio (no need for actual numbers). The alternative is that Crany is only looking for people with actual experience of Yodelar to respond; that is certainly their right.
one thing though, why have you changed my quote???
Edited by Imasurv on Sunday 1st December 20:17
cloud_dog said:
mikeiow said:
Er.....only he couldn't.
Unless you know of a "Nik" at Fidelity, Cavendish, or Vanguard (if they did a pension, which they don't).
Do you?
Ummm, ok you've lost me Unless you know of a "Nik" at Fidelity, Cavendish, or Vanguard (if they did a pension, which they don't).
Do you?
cloud_dog said:
My reply to bogie's post has no bearing or relationship with the reference to IM. Bogie could have replaced IM with Fidelity, Cavendish, or Vanguard (if they did a pension) and my reply would have been the same.
My point is that Bogie had suggested the IM sticky because there is some *free* guidance available. I was asking whether you felt that same guidance would be available from the others you named....I would suggest not.Make sense?
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