IFA gives me the sack!
Discussion
As it says - my IFA has given me the push. We have been having an ongoing discussion about fees and how they are extracted and in the end it looks like they have got fed up with my questions. I can be a bit pedantic but I wanted detail which should have been easy for them to produce but instead i got a load of waffle and answers that were incomplete or unsatisfactory. In the end they made my comments into a "complaint" and the upshot is that they have terminated their services to me.
This has left me with in a bit of a pickle as there is quite a lot of money tied up in bonds, investment accounts and a SIPP. I can access all of them on line now having spent the morning setting things up but a lot of the investments are in collectives or investment trusts and I really do not have the knowledge or time to manage them all myself - which is why i went to an IFA in the first place. I think short term things are fairly safe but to move to another account manager I suspect will mean selling up and transferring as cash which from pervious experience may take a few weeks - during which time we have an election and who knows what mayhem. There are other complicating matters but I need sound advice and a reputable company with a good track record to take things on. Any recommendations?
This has left me with in a bit of a pickle as there is quite a lot of money tied up in bonds, investment accounts and a SIPP. I can access all of them on line now having spent the morning setting things up but a lot of the investments are in collectives or investment trusts and I really do not have the knowledge or time to manage them all myself - which is why i went to an IFA in the first place. I think short term things are fairly safe but to move to another account manager I suspect will mean selling up and transferring as cash which from pervious experience may take a few weeks - during which time we have an election and who knows what mayhem. There are other complicating matters but I need sound advice and a reputable company with a good track record to take things on. Any recommendations?
'Been there done that'!
What do their T&Cs say about termination of contract? On which of those grounds did they terminate it? I suspect they saw a proper complaint coming and acted first.
You may not be able to simply just sell without incurring a CG liability. Do you actually need to sell?
Of all your investments what did they actually do for their fee? It seems to me you have a pretty good handle on what you have - you could take over and do nothing with them and save the £Ks they charged you for - ah - not doing anything with them either. They certainly wouldn't have altered anything for the election
There is plenty of experience here to help you pick up the reins; just avoid posts from IFAs telling you you're going to die if you don't have one. And on that subject, if a respondent (to any post) is an IFA, and it's not in their profile, they should declare it in the interests of transparency.
My recommendations are (1) stay calm and think straight (2) don't act in haste (3) don't hire another IFA because you'll be back where you started (4) talk to Intelligent Money. They didn't ask me to say that, it's genuine.
What do their T&Cs say about termination of contract? On which of those grounds did they terminate it? I suspect they saw a proper complaint coming and acted first.
You may not be able to simply just sell without incurring a CG liability. Do you actually need to sell?
Of all your investments what did they actually do for their fee? It seems to me you have a pretty good handle on what you have - you could take over and do nothing with them and save the £Ks they charged you for - ah - not doing anything with them either. They certainly wouldn't have altered anything for the election
There is plenty of experience here to help you pick up the reins; just avoid posts from IFAs telling you you're going to die if you don't have one. And on that subject, if a respondent (to any post) is an IFA, and it's not in their profile, they should declare it in the interests of transparency.
My recommendations are (1) stay calm and think straight (2) don't act in haste (3) don't hire another IFA because you'll be back where you started (4) talk to Intelligent Money. They didn't ask me to say that, it's genuine.
Thanks for your good advice Simpo two - I have got over the shock and resisted venting my spleen on TrustPilot or whatever. Doing nothing is fine for the moment but I am aggrieved. However, better to do things in the cold light of day. Incidentally it was the IFA organisation that decided to make it a complaint because they said they had to treat my "dissatisfaction" as a complaint for "regulatory" purposes. In fact they are full of regulatory nonsense and always covering their backs which makes straightforward answers quite difficult for them. Also i think the senior partner is not quite as sharp as he used to be and certainly some of his advice has been incorrect. Better out of it - just that I do need someone to help manage this and i am not confident to do t myself.
Why not see if you can simply "re-register" the investments onto a platform such as Fidelity? No sales involved and hence no CGT exposure.
Any that Fidelity (or whoever) can't take you can have re-registered directly into your own name.
Fidelity fees,
Any that Fidelity (or whoever) can't take you can have re-registered directly into your own name.
Fidelity fees,
- Standard service fee 0.35% if the total value of your investments is £7,500 to £249,999.99.
- Drops to 0.2% if you hold more than £250,000 of investments.
- No further service fee is charged for assets held above £1 million.
Sorry to hear of your predicament, it is becoming far more common place than most people realise (IFAs sacking clients who ask awkward question or who are not deemed sufficiently profitable at the moment).
Rockin is correct, you can move everything to someone like Fidelity at no charge (and you should, as your adviser may still be collecting charges from you).
What sort of bonds do you have? If these are bond funds then things are simple, but if they are insurance company investment bonds then it is a bit more complicated.
I would contact each platform/provider and inform them that no further adviser fees should be paid to your former IFA from the date of you being "sacked" by them.
Then look over your options (you have many).
If you are happy to keep things where they are then there is no need to pay anyone to do anything.
If you are not sure then (thank you Simpo Two for your comment) you always post on the Intelligent Money sticky at the top of the finance thread to receive free professional guidance on your situation (without any discussion as to what Intelligent Money offer).
Either way, you may end up being better off not paying adviser fees unless these also covered complex tax and trust arrangements (which would not be usual).
All the very best!
Rockin is correct, you can move everything to someone like Fidelity at no charge (and you should, as your adviser may still be collecting charges from you).
What sort of bonds do you have? If these are bond funds then things are simple, but if they are insurance company investment bonds then it is a bit more complicated.
I would contact each platform/provider and inform them that no further adviser fees should be paid to your former IFA from the date of you being "sacked" by them.
Then look over your options (you have many).
If you are happy to keep things where they are then there is no need to pay anyone to do anything.
If you are not sure then (thank you Simpo Two for your comment) you always post on the Intelligent Money sticky at the top of the finance thread to receive free professional guidance on your situation (without any discussion as to what Intelligent Money offer).
Either way, you may end up being better off not paying adviser fees unless these also covered complex tax and trust arrangements (which would not be usual).
All the very best!
Thanks Julian. I will certainly look at getting advice from IM. Meanwhile I am considering my options. As it stands, the investments are on the 7IM platform and the other bonds with Old Mutual. I can now access all of them on line. This may turn out to have been a good thing as you tend to feel some loyalty to a long standing advisor - but they haven't shown much towards me. I am already saving myself in excess of £20K pa by doing nothing!!
Beggarall said:
Thanks Julian. I will certainly look at getting advice from IM. Meanwhile I am considering my options. As it stands, the investments are on the 7IM platform and the other bonds with Old Mutual. I can now access all of them on line. This may turn out to have been a good thing as you tend to feel some loyalty to a long standing advisor - but they haven't shown much towards me. I am already saving myself in excess of £20K pa by doing nothing!!
No problem, you must have asked some pretty awkward questions (and your former IFA had some pretty awkward things to hide)! Nothing wrong with 7IM or Old Mutual so you are probably best staying as you are with the £20k annual savings in advice fees for now.
You know where we are should you need any assistance.
Beggarall said:
As it says - my IFA has given me the push. We have been having an ongoing discussion about fees and how they are extracted and in the end it looks like they have got fed up with my questions. I can be a bit pedantic but I wanted detail which should have been easy for them to produce but instead i got a load of waffle and answers that were incomplete or unsatisfactory. In the end they made my comments into a "complaint" and the upshot is that they have terminated their services to me.
This just shows their small-minded attitude and it says a lot more about them than it does about you.I'll never agree with the mindset of a business owner who would rather throw a good client under the bus rather than deal with their queries in a professional way. Ultimately they might reach a point where they are unable to provide further clarifications that might meet your requirement; they then just need to explain that in a calm and professional manner at which point, you can either decide whether you are happy to compromise and accept their best answer or if you wish to move to a different provider.
No doubt you had touched a nerve - personally I avoid any company who is prepared to act in a fit of pique like this, so I think they have done you a favour.
£20k a year is a healthy fee for the IFA to give up! It you think they’ve been over charging etc just because you are no longer a client there is nothing to stop you pursuing it....in fact it’s easier as there is no ongoing relationship.
If you can hint at what you think they’ve been doing without giving up personal information you might get a good second opinion on here.
If you can hint at what you think they’ve been doing without giving up personal information you might get a good second opinion on here.
He he, ours did that to us. Luckily we didn't really have much by way of stuff with him, just used for mortgages and a bit of insurance stuff.
We wanted some life assurance as we thought we probably should with a baby on the way at the time. Pretty much knew what I wanted told him, he quoted, I got some quotes off Cavendish Online to compare, they were significantly less than his for the same product as obviously he was taking a commission element on top. I said I wouldn't pay his prices for something I could get myself for cheaper but did value his advice and it would be helpful having him on-board for the legal side of it, would he do it for a fixed fee but with the premiums much nearer to those I could get? He stormed off never to be seen again.
We wanted some life assurance as we thought we probably should with a baby on the way at the time. Pretty much knew what I wanted told him, he quoted, I got some quotes off Cavendish Online to compare, they were significantly less than his for the same product as obviously he was taking a commission element on top. I said I wouldn't pay his prices for something I could get myself for cheaper but did value his advice and it would be helpful having him on-board for the legal side of it, would he do it for a fixed fee but with the premiums much nearer to those I could get? He stormed off never to be seen again.
Cheib said:
£20k a year is a healthy fee for the IFA to give up! It you think they’ve been over charging etc just because you are no longer a client there is nothing to stop you pursuing it....in fact it’s easier as there is no ongoing relationship.
If you can hint at what you think they’ve been doing without giving up personal information you might get a good second opinion on here.
It was amazingly difficult to get straightforward information from them and it was probably that i kept going back to ask for clarification of figures that led them to make my "dissatisfaction" (their words) into a complaint and then to have everything done by letter (to appear "professional" - again their words) and no doubt to cover their backs in the event that I did actually make a complaint. It was slightly complicated because I had a number of different financial products managed by them held on different platforms which had different fees. These variable but individually small percentages collectively added up - platform fee, discretionary fund manager fee (plus VAT), advisors fee, product fee etc. These fees were calculated and taken on a month by month basis on the value of the portfolio at the time - so the fees increased if the value went up (and the converse). From spreadsheets they produced it appeared that the percentages differed across a range of seemingly identical products. At the end of the year the total paid in fees was higher than I had expected and it was this lack of "transparency" which set me on my quest in the first place. IFAs are very free with words like transparency and regulatory. Their case was not helped by a number of incorrect assertions and pieces of advice which were subsequently contradicted. I did wonder about taking things further but I am not sure I have the energy and I am probably well out of it. I will conclude by saying that I had a very interesting and informative conversation with JulianPH and if you read this Julian - a very big thank you - put my mind at ease and I have now have a plan!If you can hint at what you think they’ve been doing without giving up personal information you might get a good second opinion on here.
Beggarall said:
Cheib said:
£20k a year is a healthy fee for the IFA to give up! It you think they’ve been over charging etc just because you are no longer a client there is nothing to stop you pursuing it....in fact it’s easier as there is no ongoing relationship.
If you can hint at what you think they’ve been doing without giving up personal information you might get a good second opinion on here.
It was amazingly difficult to get straightforward information from them and it was probably that i kept going back to ask for clarification of figures that led them to make my "dissatisfaction" (their words) into a complaint and then to have everything done by letter (to appear "professional" - again their words) and no doubt to cover their backs in the event that I did actually make a complaint. It was slightly complicated because I had a number of different financial products managed by them held on different platforms which had different fees. These variable but individually small percentages collectively added up - platform fee, discretionary fund manager fee (plus VAT), advisors fee, product fee etc. These fees were calculated and taken on a month by month basis on the value of the portfolio at the time - so the fees increased if the value went up (and the converse). From spreadsheets they produced it appeared that the percentages differed across a range of seemingly identical products. At the end of the year the total paid in fees was higher than I had expected and it was this lack of "transparency" which set me on my quest in the first place. IFAs are very free with words like transparency and regulatory. Their case was not helped by a number of incorrect assertions and pieces of advice which were subsequently contradicted. I did wonder about taking things further but I am not sure I have the energy and I am probably well out of it. I will conclude by saying that I had a very interesting and informative conversation with JulianPH and if you read this Julian - a very big thank you - put my mind at ease and I have now have a plan!If you can hint at what you think they’ve been doing without giving up personal information you might get a good second opinion on here.
I am happy I was able to be helpful. Your situation was both shocking and yet not unusual (if that make sense).
You are certainly in a better position right now (obviously I won't elaborate further on this) than you initially considered.
You know where I am if you need anything further. You can take your time and explore all the options open to you.
Cheers
Julian
Beggarall said:
As it stands, the investments are on the 7IM platform and the other bonds with Old Mutual. I can now access all of them on line.
Progress! Which platform is cheaper/better? You might get a cheaper tier if you combine both into one. As mentioned above, you may be able to transfer them 'in specie' which will avoid sell/buy/CGT.Beggarall said:
I am already saving myself in excess of £20K pa by doing nothing!!
It's a great feeling isn't it! A pound saved is a pound earned...ETA: Contact all parties still involved and make sure no payments have been made to the IFA since the date of their letter to you.
Edited by Simpo Two on Saturday 7th December 09:47
Simpo Two said:
It's a great feeling isn't it! A pound saved is a pound earned...
ETA: Contact all parties still involved and make sure no payments have been made to the IFA since the date of their letter to you.
Yep - I have spent a lot of this week on the telephone and writing letters. I have left everything in specie for now and won't take further action until after the election and Christmas are over. Thanks for your comments ETA: Contact all parties still involved and make sure no payments have been made to the IFA since the date of their letter to you.
Edited by Simpo Two on Saturday 7th December 09:47
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