Driving without due care and attention advice
Discussion
Hi
Wonder if I can get some advice here?
Have just received a summons (in the normal post - is this normal?) for driving without due care & attention following a RTA in January.
The summons reads as follows: On date at time the defendent drove Car on Road without due care and attention in that you did fail to stop when a vehicle in front of you stopped at a give way line resulting in the vehicle in front being pushed forward causing damage and injury.
Key points from my perspective:
1. I accept the accident was my fault
2. The driver I hit was a learner driver, who didnt pull away into a gap that was large enough for me to be checking to my right to see if I could follow it.
3. Whilst I accept it was my fault I feel it was in effect a momentary lack of concentration rather than anything more serious.
4. The injury was "whiplash" to the driver, I estimate speed of impact around 15mph
5. The accident I felt didn't necesitate police attendance, but the other party (the drivers family rather than the driver directly) were aggressive (suggesting that I was on my mobile phone - not true and not stated in the summons) or that I "probably didn't care, since I was only driving a Skoda"!
So, now I've recieved a summons. I'm very concerned at the possibility of losing my license as I have six speeding points currently.
Morally, I dont think I can stand up and claim this wasnt DWDCA against an officer stating otherwise, but I'm desperate not to lose my license. I think my best approach is to attend and express my genuine contrition, explain the changes I have made in response to the accident, explain how important my having a license is for my job (my employers will write to confirm this).
Is this my best approach? What is the likely penalty (I know 3-9 points are possibilities)?
I drive a company car so cannot get "free legal assistance" with my insurance, I cannot aford legal representation at commercial rates.
Sorry to prattle on, but am concerned and want the best possible outcome.
Cheers
Dan.
Wonder if I can get some advice here?
Have just received a summons (in the normal post - is this normal?) for driving without due care & attention following a RTA in January.
The summons reads as follows: On date at time the defendent drove Car on Road without due care and attention in that you did fail to stop when a vehicle in front of you stopped at a give way line resulting in the vehicle in front being pushed forward causing damage and injury.
Key points from my perspective:
1. I accept the accident was my fault
2. The driver I hit was a learner driver, who didnt pull away into a gap that was large enough for me to be checking to my right to see if I could follow it.
3. Whilst I accept it was my fault I feel it was in effect a momentary lack of concentration rather than anything more serious.
4. The injury was "whiplash" to the driver, I estimate speed of impact around 15mph
5. The accident I felt didn't necesitate police attendance, but the other party (the drivers family rather than the driver directly) were aggressive (suggesting that I was on my mobile phone - not true and not stated in the summons) or that I "probably didn't care, since I was only driving a Skoda"!
So, now I've recieved a summons. I'm very concerned at the possibility of losing my license as I have six speeding points currently.
Morally, I dont think I can stand up and claim this wasnt DWDCA against an officer stating otherwise, but I'm desperate not to lose my license. I think my best approach is to attend and express my genuine contrition, explain the changes I have made in response to the accident, explain how important my having a license is for my job (my employers will write to confirm this).
Is this my best approach? What is the likely penalty (I know 3-9 points are possibilities)?
I drive a company car so cannot get "free legal assistance" with my insurance, I cannot aford legal representation at commercial rates.
Sorry to prattle on, but am concerned and want the best possible outcome.
Cheers
Dan.
peaceful_warrior said:
I drive a company car so cannot get "free legal assistance" with my insurance, I cannot aford legal representation at commercial rates.
Worth checking what you might get thrown in with your bank account / credit card etc - I'm pretty sure I can get legal advice from the bank because of the account I have. Also worth checking with the company insurers whether they can help. When I was a cc driver, I certainly had a Zurich membership card with various advice line numbers on it.
You're right to hold your hands up and say "my bad" - as far as I can see there's pretty much no defence if you hit a stationary vehicle. But DWDCA??? Seems pretty harsh - these kind of shunts happen day in, day out. In fact my Mrs drove my company car into the back of someone in exactly the same way. Insurance paid out, no police action whatsoever.
I've heard about this before - one of the outsourced trainers went on a "speed awareness" course last year (apparently almost all the people there were 30+ and looked presentable, hardly dangers to society)...he got talking to the woman next to him, who'd had exactly the same thing - except hers was a 50/50!!! She'd been given the option of a summons or a place on this course at £>100.
Basically if the traffic police are short their "targets" for the month, and they've spaces on the course to fill, then they trawl the accidents in the area recently and target people who've admitted fault!
Don't take this as gospel - it's second hand. But it still stinks.
Basically if the traffic police are short their "targets" for the month, and they've spaces on the course to fill, then they trawl the accidents in the area recently and target people who've admitted fault!
Don't take this as gospel - it's second hand. But it still stinks.
Strictly speaking, pretty much every accident is down to somebody not paying enough care and attention to the road - and I've been guilty of that myself although not for many years now 
Personally, I'd take it on the chin, go to court with your best clothing on, and be as honest and forthright as possible with the judge. Take a solicitor if you like, but sometimes I feel that going cap-in-hand and not trying to get out of it can earn you more sympathy.
If you can show you need your car for your job (letter from your boss/company would be excellent), chances are you'll be ok.
Personally, I'd take it on the chin, go to court with your best clothing on, and be as honest and forthright as possible with the judge. Take a solicitor if you like, but sometimes I feel that going cap-in-hand and not trying to get out of it can earn you more sympathy.
If you can show you need your car for your job (letter from your boss/company would be excellent), chances are you'll be ok.
"2. The driver I hit was a learner driver, who didnt pull away into a gap that was large enough for me to be checking to my right to see if I could follow it"
Definately do not mention this. You have contradicted yourself, the other driver did nothing wrong
(that's not meant to sound pompous)
Definately do not mention this. You have contradicted yourself, the other driver did nothing wrong
(that's not meant to sound pompous)
cuneus said:
"2. The driver I hit was a learner driver, who didnt pull away into a gap that was large enough for me to be checking to my right to see if I could follow it"
Definately do not mention this. You have contradicted yourself, the other driver did nothing wrong
Where's the contradiction?
It certainly sounds a little OTT and not a little vindictive... the other party tands to gain nothing extra by persuing a prosecution as presumably your insurance will pay up for any damage / injuries caused.
Did the police actually attend? If so and the in the officer's opinion it was a case of DWDCA then I'm guessing there's not much you can do about it other than take it on the chin and be suitable contrite at court.
Unfortunately this could easily be regarded as a definition of a lack of "due care and attention"!
Did the police actually attend? If so and the in the officer's opinion it was a case of DWDCA then I'm guessing there's not much you can do about it other than take it on the chin and be suitable contrite at court.
peaceful_warrior said:
I feel it was in effect a momentary lack of concentration rather than anything more serious.
Unfortunately this could easily be regarded as a definition of a lack of "due care and attention"!
www.freelawyer.co.uk said:
Introduction
This section makes it an offence to drive any type of motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention. It is therefore commonly known as “careless” driving.
Summary of the Law
Your driving is measured against the standard of driving expected from a reasonable, prudent, competent driver. For you to be found guilty, the prosecution convince the court that your driving fell below that standard. Prudent simply means cautious and showing forethought.
The court will apply the standard of the hypothetical careful driver to the facts in the case, and cannot make any allowance for things such as your inexperience or a momentary lack of judgement.
However, the court does have to consider all the circumstances of the case. This is because what might be careless in one situation might not be in different circumstances, for example in different weather or traffic conditions.
In some cases the prosecution may not have actual evidence of carelessness, but the facts of the case are so overwhelming the only logical conclusion is that the driver was careless: for example, where a car mounts a verge and crashes into a telegraph pole three feet onto the verge. If the driver can offer no explanation to the court as to why the accident happened, the court will very likely conclude that the crash must have been caused by the fault of the driver. If, however an explanation is offered, it is the prosecution who must then prove that the explanation is not true. The driver is entitled to the benefit of the doubt if the prosecution cannot do so.
If the driving breaks the Highway Code, then this will tend to suggest that the driving fell below the required standard.
Maximum Sentence:
This offence may be dealt with only in the Magistrates Court.
The maximum penalty is a fine of £2500.
The Court can, if it thinks fit, disqualify you from driving for any period and order that you sit a driving test before getting your licence back.
The Court will endorse your licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points, unless there are special reasons not to do so. Special reasons are tightly defined and are unlikely to be applicable in most cases.
Legal provision
s3 Road Traffic Act 1988, as amended
Yup, this sickens me too.
OK, it can be bad, but I was overtaken into by a biker at 60mph+ who nearly killed himself and wrote off both vehicles, bad injuries each and all that, and he got 5 points and driving without due care.
Kinda makes me angry when I see you maybe getting the same for 15mph into the back of a car and no injuries so to speak...
Either your getting treated too harshly, or the guy who hit me got off lightly!
Crappy system, really not very comparable between incidents by any stretch of the imagination!
Dave
OK, it can be bad, but I was overtaken into by a biker at 60mph+ who nearly killed himself and wrote off both vehicles, bad injuries each and all that, and he got 5 points and driving without due care.
Kinda makes me angry when I see you maybe getting the same for 15mph into the back of a car and no injuries so to speak...
Either your getting treated too harshly, or the guy who hit me got off lightly!
Crappy system, really not very comparable between incidents by any stretch of the imagination!
Dave
I think it's important that the summons says that you "failed to stop" whereas it seems that you did stop, but then pulled away again thinking they had gone. I've done it myself a couple of years ago - fact is, yes it is careless, but a momentary lapse rather than driving with your head up your backside like so many others - now THAT's "without due consideration"!
As others have said, I'd turn up in best clobber, look contrite but intelligent, explain the circumstances and hope the judge / magistrate is reasonable.
Good luck.
As others have said, I'd turn up in best clobber, look contrite but intelligent, explain the circumstances and hope the judge / magistrate is reasonable.
Good luck.
MR2Mike said:
"2. The driver I hit was a learner driver, who didnt pull away into a gap that was large enough for me to be checking to my right to see if I could follow it"
Definately do not mention this. You have contradicted yourself, the other driver did nothing wrong
Where's the contradiction?
Learner driver and an opinion
Yes the police did attend, and take statements. As far as I'm aware, there were no independent witnesses.
I dont feel I can morally (or legally!) plead not guilty, and with six points I know I'm at risk of a ban. I'm just looking for the best strategy to minimise the risk of losing my license.
Cheers for all the feedback so far,
Dan.
I dont feel I can morally (or legally!) plead not guilty, and with six points I know I'm at risk of a ban. I'm just looking for the best strategy to minimise the risk of losing my license.
Cheers for all the feedback so far,
Dan.
peaceful_warrior said:
Yes the police did attend, and take statements. As far as I'm aware, there were no independent witnesses.
I dont feel I can morally (or legally!) plead not guilty, and with six points I know I'm at risk of a ban. I'm just looking for the best strategy to minimise the risk of losing my license.
Cheers for all the feedback so far,
Dan.
1) Dress smartly
2) Grovel
Years ago people had minor bumps like this without any possibility of police action, but because imo we now live in a compensation culture people are determined to make money out of even the slightess injury. So to get an injury claim they have to report it to the police who then are duty bound to investigate and fill their coffers at the same time.
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