Two years with a Panamera ST Turbo
Discussion
It did not start well.
I had ordered the Panamera ST Turbo for European Delivery as usual - pickup in September 2017.
The car was specified with all chrome removed, turbo badge deleted, CF trim interior in plain black, full leather.Just the Turbo, not hybrid, very few of the electronic aids, just Sport Chrono and Torque vectoring. 21” colour matched wheels and standard 20” winter rims, 18—way seats and a few other minor things. I also added insulated ,sound-deadening glass.
It all went wrong.
Dieselgate caused a temporary cancellation of all Euro deliveries, so I I had to pick it up at the dealer in Canada. However it could not be cleared for import pending resolution of the Dieselgate stuff which has spilled over into EPA in the US holding up lots of cars, despite not being diesels. I finally picked it up in January 2018.
It was snowing of course. So, the winter rims went on right away. Car was exactly as I had specified. I know that many people PH think it is horrible which is entirely their right to think, but I have generally followed my own preferences regardless of resale value, how it looks to others or the like,.
Immediate impression were that it was hugely precise on the road, lots of power, unnaturally stable on ice, and great brakes. In the Canadian winter there was no real opportunity to even begin to understand the performance at speed, but as a very comfortable and ultra quiet car it was silky smooth and very comfortable.
The whole series of Porsche web services were primitive by the standard of many Japanese manufacturers for instance, and Appletalk could only be accessed by plugging my iPhone into the USB. I loved the look of the dash, but the haptic buttons on the shiny surface predictably showed fingerprints. The climate control would have defeated a nuclear physicist and was best left on auto.Main dials were very clear and setup quite intuitive.
Then the trouble began. The car would not hold a charge, and after a couple of days’ parking would be completely flat. There were many visits to the dealer over the first months, and lots of conversations with the factory to try to identify the fault. Just about everything was changed out. Except the battery which registered as perfect.
It was the battery that measured as just fine, but had a subtle fault.
Once identified the car was completely trouble free.
In winter, even in deep snow it is a very capable car. The air suspension allows a fairly high lift which is useful for parking on the often high windrows that grow up over the Canadian winter.
The car was invited to the Concours of America in Michigan to celebrate Porsche 70 as they were trying for a representative selection of cars to reflect the history of the marque. It was an amazing concours, with some of the most significant Porsches anywhere, including a superb 901 Prototype, though the car that really spoke to me was a magnificent Delage that had been the personal car of André Delage:
Still, it was a shame that I had missed the opportunity to run the car in in Europe as I usually did, so in March 2019 I shipped it back on Canadian plates. This is a complex process and takes 4-6 weeks each way. The shipper was exceptional. All I had to do was drop the car almost empty at a warehouse in Toronto, and have it delivered to my hotel in Frankfurt five weeks later. Flew out to Frankfurt a couple of days in advance to get over jet lag. On the appointed day it was due to be delivered at 10am. At 9:30 I got a call from the driver who had picked it up in Rotterdam to say he would be at the airport Hilton at 10. He arrived on time…plain blue covered truck, took five minutes to unload, and we were ready to go.
I had realized that the nav system was programmed for North America and would be useless, so had brought a TomTom which was programmed for Europe.
I had temporarily put one of my Ring plates on the car, but the intention was to go to Spa and track there also, so before leaving I changed the plate.
To EAURUGE.
Over on the side of the pond plates are cheap and you can easily move a plate from car to car, and I only put certain plates on car that I have personally driven on the track involved. In the old days this used to drive the Polizei nuts and I would be stopped often; now they have seen lots of North American cars and have accepted the crazy way we do things here.
I will not describe the European trip in detail already posted here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
However, the car itself was exceptional in its native habitat. The trip was designed to run through Berlin, the German Baltic and up to Copenhagen with a lot of track time at the Nordschleife and Spa.
I had ordered the Panamera ST Turbo for European Delivery as usual - pickup in September 2017.
The car was specified with all chrome removed, turbo badge deleted, CF trim interior in plain black, full leather.Just the Turbo, not hybrid, very few of the electronic aids, just Sport Chrono and Torque vectoring. 21” colour matched wheels and standard 20” winter rims, 18—way seats and a few other minor things. I also added insulated ,sound-deadening glass.
It all went wrong.
Dieselgate caused a temporary cancellation of all Euro deliveries, so I I had to pick it up at the dealer in Canada. However it could not be cleared for import pending resolution of the Dieselgate stuff which has spilled over into EPA in the US holding up lots of cars, despite not being diesels. I finally picked it up in January 2018.
It was snowing of course. So, the winter rims went on right away. Car was exactly as I had specified. I know that many people PH think it is horrible which is entirely their right to think, but I have generally followed my own preferences regardless of resale value, how it looks to others or the like,.
Immediate impression were that it was hugely precise on the road, lots of power, unnaturally stable on ice, and great brakes. In the Canadian winter there was no real opportunity to even begin to understand the performance at speed, but as a very comfortable and ultra quiet car it was silky smooth and very comfortable.
The whole series of Porsche web services were primitive by the standard of many Japanese manufacturers for instance, and Appletalk could only be accessed by plugging my iPhone into the USB. I loved the look of the dash, but the haptic buttons on the shiny surface predictably showed fingerprints. The climate control would have defeated a nuclear physicist and was best left on auto.Main dials were very clear and setup quite intuitive.
Then the trouble began. The car would not hold a charge, and after a couple of days’ parking would be completely flat. There were many visits to the dealer over the first months, and lots of conversations with the factory to try to identify the fault. Just about everything was changed out. Except the battery which registered as perfect.
It was the battery that measured as just fine, but had a subtle fault.
Once identified the car was completely trouble free.
In winter, even in deep snow it is a very capable car. The air suspension allows a fairly high lift which is useful for parking on the often high windrows that grow up over the Canadian winter.
The car was invited to the Concours of America in Michigan to celebrate Porsche 70 as they were trying for a representative selection of cars to reflect the history of the marque. It was an amazing concours, with some of the most significant Porsches anywhere, including a superb 901 Prototype, though the car that really spoke to me was a magnificent Delage that had been the personal car of André Delage:
Still, it was a shame that I had missed the opportunity to run the car in in Europe as I usually did, so in March 2019 I shipped it back on Canadian plates. This is a complex process and takes 4-6 weeks each way. The shipper was exceptional. All I had to do was drop the car almost empty at a warehouse in Toronto, and have it delivered to my hotel in Frankfurt five weeks later. Flew out to Frankfurt a couple of days in advance to get over jet lag. On the appointed day it was due to be delivered at 10am. At 9:30 I got a call from the driver who had picked it up in Rotterdam to say he would be at the airport Hilton at 10. He arrived on time…plain blue covered truck, took five minutes to unload, and we were ready to go.
I had realized that the nav system was programmed for North America and would be useless, so had brought a TomTom which was programmed for Europe.
I had temporarily put one of my Ring plates on the car, but the intention was to go to Spa and track there also, so before leaving I changed the plate.
To EAURUGE.
Over on the side of the pond plates are cheap and you can easily move a plate from car to car, and I only put certain plates on car that I have personally driven on the track involved. In the old days this used to drive the Polizei nuts and I would be stopped often; now they have seen lots of North American cars and have accepted the crazy way we do things here.
I will not describe the European trip in detail already posted here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
However, the car itself was exceptional in its native habitat. The trip was designed to run through Berlin, the German Baltic and up to Copenhagen with a lot of track time at the Nordschleife and Spa.
I have generally been on circuits before with very track-focused cars, so this was going to be a very new experience.
On the autobahn the car was predictably rock solid, quiet apart from the muted rumble of the V8. Because I did not have new tires I resisted a compete max, ( was curious to see how much quicker it was than the claimed 307 km/h but resisted). At 275-285 it was absolutely stuck on the open autobahn, not sense of drama at all, and at the more regular speeds of 200, 210 it was just cruising,. As it happened weather was good apart from a very wet drive up to Denmark.
No emergencies apart from some adventurous type in Belgium
who loaded a light trailer full of bricks, jackknifed it spreading bricks across the highway in front of me and lots of sudden braking, luckily was not hit from behind.
The track was another matter. Arriving at the NS on A Sunday I had no intention of tracking that day, but the weather forecast was awful for the following few days. I decided to track. It was brutal, crowded, many bad crashes and only got about six laps in. Many closures.
Next day turned out to be dry and uncrowded. With a fairly open track I was able to see how the car would handle, Evidently t very different proposition to my RS experience, but in track mode the car hunkered down on its suspension and shifts are much more aggressive, shocks much harder. I certainly felt the bulk of the car, and the brakes which were excellent had a tendency to overheat, so a rest now and then was a good idea.
I have video of all my instructor laps from previous visits, and had studied them carefully, as well the usual GT4 hundreds of laps. I had also watched video of what had changed, so I was more comfortable on the track than I expected. Of course the usual swarm of GT3RS, GT2RS, Manthey cars were there in large numbers, so I stayed out of the way from the really quick stuff.
After three days and a lot of laps I went to the Porsche dealership in the industrial park ( owned by Manthey), and had the oil changed and tires inspected. Lots of shoulder wear but still OK for Spa. It had been ten years since I had run there in a 997.1RS, so I really did not have the confidence I had at the Nürburgring. I did a full morning with an instructor.
Spa is insanely fast in the right car, and there were lots of right cars. Donkervoorts, full race Porsches on slicks, all sorts of pure track toys.
And a station wagon.
On the track walk, Ron Simon did at talk at Radillon, looking down at Eau Rouge, and give some very solid advice as to how to drive Spa. He predicted that there would be some crashes. He showed us some of the most dangerous areas, and suggested that the worst time would be the first few laps and and late afternoon when most mishaps occur.
The car has been inspected and cleared to go. I met with Allan, my instructor and he suggested we take a few minutes and look at the track map. It was time to go.
Despite its size the car has huge acceleration, ( 3.6 sec to 100Km). Stopping is the issue not speed
. Allan was an excellent and calm instructor. It took me half a dozen laps to finally get the line up to Radillon. Ron had advised to let the car drift out to the right if the car was off line at the top rather than correct. Luckily I was not that far off.
Still, braking is fairly violent at the end of the straight, and eventually that car began to drift a bit. Brakes were red hot, and tire pressure way too high. Took a break and dropped pressures.
Returning to the track , I was driving very badly and Allan was surprised. We came in for a review and then I realized I had left it in the softest road mode ( if you turn off the engine it reverts to regular mode which is wonderful for a quiet drive in the country but awful on a track).
Once corrected, things got a lot better and the rest of the day was successful - Allan drove it himself and was quite astonished at how stable it was on a track.
There were of course crashes, unfortunately.
On the autobahn the car was predictably rock solid, quiet apart from the muted rumble of the V8. Because I did not have new tires I resisted a compete max, ( was curious to see how much quicker it was than the claimed 307 km/h but resisted). At 275-285 it was absolutely stuck on the open autobahn, not sense of drama at all, and at the more regular speeds of 200, 210 it was just cruising,. As it happened weather was good apart from a very wet drive up to Denmark.
No emergencies apart from some adventurous type in Belgium
who loaded a light trailer full of bricks, jackknifed it spreading bricks across the highway in front of me and lots of sudden braking, luckily was not hit from behind.
The track was another matter. Arriving at the NS on A Sunday I had no intention of tracking that day, but the weather forecast was awful for the following few days. I decided to track. It was brutal, crowded, many bad crashes and only got about six laps in. Many closures.
Next day turned out to be dry and uncrowded. With a fairly open track I was able to see how the car would handle, Evidently t very different proposition to my RS experience, but in track mode the car hunkered down on its suspension and shifts are much more aggressive, shocks much harder. I certainly felt the bulk of the car, and the brakes which were excellent had a tendency to overheat, so a rest now and then was a good idea.
I have video of all my instructor laps from previous visits, and had studied them carefully, as well the usual GT4 hundreds of laps. I had also watched video of what had changed, so I was more comfortable on the track than I expected. Of course the usual swarm of GT3RS, GT2RS, Manthey cars were there in large numbers, so I stayed out of the way from the really quick stuff.
After three days and a lot of laps I went to the Porsche dealership in the industrial park ( owned by Manthey), and had the oil changed and tires inspected. Lots of shoulder wear but still OK for Spa. It had been ten years since I had run there in a 997.1RS, so I really did not have the confidence I had at the Nürburgring. I did a full morning with an instructor.
Spa is insanely fast in the right car, and there were lots of right cars. Donkervoorts, full race Porsches on slicks, all sorts of pure track toys.
And a station wagon.
On the track walk, Ron Simon did at talk at Radillon, looking down at Eau Rouge, and give some very solid advice as to how to drive Spa. He predicted that there would be some crashes. He showed us some of the most dangerous areas, and suggested that the worst time would be the first few laps and and late afternoon when most mishaps occur.
The car has been inspected and cleared to go. I met with Allan, my instructor and he suggested we take a few minutes and look at the track map. It was time to go.
Despite its size the car has huge acceleration, ( 3.6 sec to 100Km). Stopping is the issue not speed
. Allan was an excellent and calm instructor. It took me half a dozen laps to finally get the line up to Radillon. Ron had advised to let the car drift out to the right if the car was off line at the top rather than correct. Luckily I was not that far off.Still, braking is fairly violent at the end of the straight, and eventually that car began to drift a bit. Brakes were red hot, and tire pressure way too high. Took a break and dropped pressures.
Returning to the track , I was driving very badly and Allan was surprised. We came in for a review and then I realized I had left it in the softest road mode ( if you turn off the engine it reverts to regular mode which is wonderful for a quiet drive in the country but awful on a track).
Once corrected, things got a lot better and the rest of the day was successful - Allan drove it himself and was quite astonished at how stable it was on a track.
There were of course crashes, unfortunately.
Back in Canada now it has 20,000km on it and has been completely reliable. Its time fo adventure is now past it and it is relegated to more sedate duties. My favourite car for long distance runs still, it is a wonderfully smooth and precise car to drive, utterly different from the RS world. Nice for a drive in the Fall, great in snow, where the ability to lift it with air suspension is great in deep snow. I have done test emergency braking in the icy Canadian winter and it is absolutely predictable.
Obviously not a car that many people like, but it works very well for me.
Obviously not a car that many people like, but it works very well for me.
RhysH said:
Great read, and what a fantastic trip in the car. When I first seen the pictures I must admit I did not like the coloured wheels matching the car, but by the last photo I actually quite like them...
Great car OP.
Probably the most divisive car since I bought an E63 M6 in 2006, It was also wisely disliked for the styling at the time, but it looked good to meGreat car OP.
..I have no taste!scottos said:
I always enjoy your posts and this is no different, i really like the look of these Panamera's and no doubt one would be the daily wagon if i was in a similar position!
Also reminds me i really need to get back over to Germany!
Many thanks...and now for something completely different....taking my Jeep into the deep Arizona desert in a week or so. instead of 180 mph it will be more like 10 mphAlso reminds me i really need to get back over to Germany!
Well done for buying the car YOU want and enjoying it the way YOU want to. Got mine a couple of years ago as well, and it's a fabulous piece of kit. I do struggle with personalisation of my settings, partly my ineptitude, partly because of the tendency of Porsche to make things more complicated than they need be. FFS. But otherwise it's really quick and handles way better than it has any right to.
456mgt said:
Well done for buying the car YOU want and enjoying it the way YOU want to. Got mine a couple of years ago as well, and it's a fabulous piece of kit. I do struggle with personalisation of my settings, partly my ineptitude, partly because of the tendency of Porsche to make things more complicated than they need be. FFS. But otherwise it's really quick and handles way better than it has any right to.
Agree on all points. At least here in Canada the other weakness is the web services. In something like a higher end Nissan for instance you can have a concierge book a meal. Porsche? I can check how much fuel is in the car from my phone. How fascinating. Or I can see the price of nearby gas from the dash. They charge for this wonderment.
I still love the car. They just need to get some people from Apple to sort out the mobile stuff.
Great write up like all of your posts, many thanks for sharing your experience! My father bought a Panamera a few years ago and when I drove it, it surprised me with it's precise handling and performance, despite the weight.
And I salute you for buying what you want and using it how you want, life is way too short to do otherwise
And I salute you for buying what you want and using it how you want, life is way too short to do otherwise
AndrewGP said:
Great write up like all of your posts, many thanks for sharing your experience! My father bought a Panamera a few years ago and when I drove it, it surprised me with it's precise handling and performance, despite the weight.
And I salute you for buying what you want and using it how you want, life is way too short to do otherwise
I sorted out life being too short at about 11 and my first jobAnd I salute you for buying what you want and using it how you want, life is way too short to do otherwise
. We all get 24 hours a day apart from the first day and the last!Gio G said:
Very nice write up. A good friend of mine just picked up a 6 month old GTS and have to admit the interior is just another level. It is one of those cars that in the flesh has so much presence and style..
G
The facelift car is now fairly advanced and should have a much better web services layer, hopefullyG
RDMcG said:
RhysH said:
Great read, and what a fantastic trip in the car. When I first seen the pictures I must admit I did not like the coloured wheels matching the car, but by the last photo I actually quite like them...
Great car OP.
Probably the most divisive car since I bought an E63 M6 in 2006, It was also wisely disliked for the styling at the time, but it looked good to meGreat car OP.
..I have no taste!Seem like you rate as a good at all rounder car... would this be the car to have if you only had to have one?
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