RE: The Shock of the Old
Monday 30th September 2002
The Shock of the Old
Jaguar needs to dare to be different says Robert Farago
Discussion
Good article, I personally have never liked any of the xj's I've seen. I just saw a 1986 xj6 and without taking second look couldn't have told the difference between it and the new one.
The F-type(?) mid engined prototype was a fantastic looking car and also would have appealed to a younger audience.
gsb
The F-type(?) mid engined prototype was a fantastic looking car and also would have appealed to a younger audience.
gsb
What is good design? I´ve worked with design for more than 30 years and studies every penline in a car´s design. But today it seems that there is many different people who draws their own part of the car and then combines it together to one. Design is just as difficult to tell as to tell what a sportscar is.
A good design is NOT nessecerily what people buys, because most people can´t see the difference between a good design or a bad. How´s that so many people pays money to buy the Kangoos, Micra and Berlingos. They´re just looking like stupid cartoons a kid has drawn. Most of the famous Merc´s are also not good designs, they are just bold cars without propotions. The roofline ends to far away to the back of the car, just like 2nd latest BMW´s to make the total looking perfect. (The new 3-series have corrected that). The cabin is set at the back of the design and with the front wheel just behind the front lights. It can´t look good, even if the rest of the car is well made.
I cant´t tell about the new XJ because I´ve not seen it live, but Jaguars have always made just perfect designs, except the -87 to -94 model. The last XJ together with the Series 3 was the absolutely most beautiful of all 4-door car designs ever, so it must almost be impossible to make the new one better.
A good design is NOT nessecerily what people buys, because most people can´t see the difference between a good design or a bad. How´s that so many people pays money to buy the Kangoos, Micra and Berlingos. They´re just looking like stupid cartoons a kid has drawn. Most of the famous Merc´s are also not good designs, they are just bold cars without propotions. The roofline ends to far away to the back of the car, just like 2nd latest BMW´s to make the total looking perfect. (The new 3-series have corrected that). The cabin is set at the back of the design and with the front wheel just behind the front lights. It can´t look good, even if the rest of the car is well made.
I cant´t tell about the new XJ because I´ve not seen it live, but Jaguars have always made just perfect designs, except the -87 to -94 model. The last XJ together with the Series 3 was the absolutely most beautiful of all 4-door car designs ever, so it must almost be impossible to make the new one better.
I think that it is a nice design - it was a nice design to start with so they have just updated it, if it ain't broke...
How is it Jaguar (surely one of our last few bits of motoring heritage to be proud of remaining) gets a kicking on the PH website but yet ALL other premier brands have a look and continuity in their designs, wnat some examples?
OK:
Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Aston
Rolls Royce
Bentley
Lotus
Morgan
TVR
All of them and more have a similar look, yes if you take the first XJ and put it against the new one it will have similarities but will be dramatically different overall, but thats the point isn't it? I mean why would they scrap a massively successful design for the sake of it - look what happened when Porsche tried to bin the 911 for the 928!
I see no reference to how it drives its (reputedly) fantastic interior, its ally body, etc, etc
IF we all bought cars purely on looks then we would all be driving round in good looking bad driving motors :-(
Personally I like it - always fancied a black XJR sport with the 19" alloys.
Lets face it the competition is hardly up to much is it?!
How is it Jaguar (surely one of our last few bits of motoring heritage to be proud of remaining) gets a kicking on the PH website but yet ALL other premier brands have a look and continuity in their designs, wnat some examples?
OK:
Porsche
BMW
Mercedes
Aston
Rolls Royce
Bentley
Lotus
Morgan
TVR
All of them and more have a similar look, yes if you take the first XJ and put it against the new one it will have similarities but will be dramatically different overall, but thats the point isn't it? I mean why would they scrap a massively successful design for the sake of it - look what happened when Porsche tried to bin the 911 for the 928!
I see no reference to how it drives its (reputedly) fantastic interior, its ally body, etc, etc
IF we all bought cars purely on looks then we would all be driving round in good looking bad driving motors :-(
Personally I like it - always fancied a black XJR sport with the 19" alloys.
Lets face it the competition is hardly up to much is it?!
P.S. I forgot to mention that I think the article misses the point.
They should keep their successful designs (including the love it or loathe it S type) but introduce new models.
The F type and the XK180 were both fantastic, the Aston and 911 crushing XKR specials they made and the R coupe should all have been made along side an already succesful line up.
An X5 beater as well as an X3 rival would also be good - lets face it Ford owns Land Rover (another brand with similarity in its branding and model line up!) so has the technology and means to hand to turn it around quickly.
Where is the X-Type R - surely needed soon?
They should keep their successful designs (including the love it or loathe it S type) but introduce new models.
The F type and the XK180 were both fantastic, the Aston and 911 crushing XKR specials they made and the R coupe should all have been made along side an already succesful line up.
An X5 beater as well as an X3 rival would also be good - lets face it Ford owns Land Rover (another brand with similarity in its branding and model line up!) so has the technology and means to hand to turn it around quickly.
Where is the X-Type R - surely needed soon?
This will sound wierd (but probably not as it's me saying it) but when I was a little kid I had a fear being run-down by cars... not entirely unreasonable...
but even at that early stage I had noticed and loved the XJ6.
I reasoned if it had to happen, if at least if it was a an XJ6, it would also be an honour...
...now it would be just as bad as any other car. That maybe because I've grown up since then, but I'm not sure that's the entire reason.
As anyone one who's read my other post post on this exact same subject will know I do still more than have time for the old cat, but like many other British institutions, she seems to have lost her etherial majisty.
She has lost her thrall, and I doubt anyone would lay down their life (metephorically or physically for that matter) for her any longer, and that's sad.
I enjoyed the article, RF @ his venomous best!
Mouse.
p.s: I agree that timeless beauty is the key to Jag's salvation. Callum's the man, let's hope for all our sakes that he doesn't end-up drowning in the mire of Ford's aesthetic apathy.
but even at that early stage I had noticed and loved the XJ6.
I reasoned if it had to happen, if at least if it was a an XJ6, it would also be an honour...
...now it would be just as bad as any other car. That maybe because I've grown up since then, but I'm not sure that's the entire reason.
As anyone one who's read my other post post on this exact same subject will know I do still more than have time for the old cat, but like many other British institutions, she seems to have lost her etherial majisty.
She has lost her thrall, and I doubt anyone would lay down their life (metephorically or physically for that matter) for her any longer, and that's sad.
I enjoyed the article, RF @ his venomous best!
Mouse.
p.s: I agree that timeless beauty is the key to Jag's salvation. Callum's the man, let's hope for all our sakes that he doesn't end-up drowning in the mire of Ford's aesthetic apathy.
While I certainly enjoy Robert's articles, I do feel compelled to respond here. Robert actually answers his own question in the article concerning why Jaguar hasn't opened the creative floodgates. It's about sales.
Automobile companies are run by businessmen that want to sell as much product as possible to as many people as possible (for the most part). While they do like to trade on the enthusiasts' wants (Jag XKR being a superb example) they are not ruled by them.
This is the same reason that we don't see a lot of very nice "concept cars" come to fruition. There is just not a good business model for production. I think that we all just need to keep our eyes out for the odd car that manages to "sneak through" the corporate accontants' scrutiny. (The Ford GT40 would be an example of that. There is no good business cas for Ford to produce this car. They are doing it strictly for ego purposes - thank goodness!)
all IMHO
ErnestM
Automobile companies are run by businessmen that want to sell as much product as possible to as many people as possible (for the most part). While they do like to trade on the enthusiasts' wants (Jag XKR being a superb example) they are not ruled by them.
This is the same reason that we don't see a lot of very nice "concept cars" come to fruition. There is just not a good business model for production. I think that we all just need to keep our eyes out for the odd car that manages to "sneak through" the corporate accontants' scrutiny. (The Ford GT40 would be an example of that. There is no good business cas for Ford to produce this car. They are doing it strictly for ego purposes - thank goodness!)
all IMHO
ErnestM
I'm of the opinion that design should evolve and not be re-invented unless you are creating a new model. Look at the Ferrari 308 line that spawned the 288 GTO, 328, 348 and culminated in the gorgeous F355. The 360? Not a patch on the others looks wise.
If you want to look at Jag history, look what happened when Jag went from E type to XJS? Wouldn't you rather have seen a new evolution of the E type?
I'm not a fan of the new car as I think its too much like the X type which was (bizzarely) a copy of the XJ. They've missed the point of the lines, or at perhaps couldn't justify the failings on love alone. I know the cars low and the interior feels small (I'm 6'2") so sooner or later they are going to arse it up by making it taller, but the cars been that way for god knows how long - surely they didn't have to buckle to the dollar?
If you want to look at Jag history, look what happened when Jag went from E type to XJS? Wouldn't you rather have seen a new evolution of the E type?
I'm not a fan of the new car as I think its too much like the X type which was (bizzarely) a copy of the XJ. They've missed the point of the lines, or at perhaps couldn't justify the failings on love alone. I know the cars low and the interior feels small (I'm 6'2") so sooner or later they are going to arse it up by making it taller, but the cars been that way for god knows how long - surely they didn't have to buckle to the dollar?
I think the New XJ is a good way forward for Jaguar!It will keep its old customers and bring in new ones.
The X-Type is a real Jag and brought forward Jaguar into a new Executive segment of the Market along with the S-Type which is one of the prettiest cars Jaguar have ever built.Both the X/S-types are true head turners and real Jags except for the FWD which brings a car from Performance to Family.
Jaguar are going into the new Millenium with grace and pace with all their models - More of this Please!
The X-Type is a real Jag and brought forward Jaguar into a new Executive segment of the Market along with the S-Type which is one of the prettiest cars Jaguar have ever built.Both the X/S-types are true head turners and real Jags except for the FWD which brings a car from Performance to Family.
Jaguar are going into the new Millenium with grace and pace with all their models - More of this Please!
best looking jag since the series 3. elegant cohesive design , not adventurous admitedly but a whole lot better than the synical "s"type
love to see the R coupe make production though , then the next "S" could move that way too , thats how BMW and Merc do it , and it works . bring out a bold design now and then and if it works go with it . Jag has now re-established itself with new XJ, lets have a new look next time please
love to see the R coupe make production though , then the next "S" could move that way too , thats how BMW and Merc do it , and it works . bring out a bold design now and then and if it works go with it . Jag has now re-established itself with new XJ, lets have a new look next time please
You're missing the point. Look at a lioness, look at a tiger, look at a domestic moggy...see what I mean? They're all different, but there are clear, species-defining commom themes.
The outgoing XJ is far better looking than the vast majority of cars on the road today and all of its competitors, so a new one which doesn't vary radically from this formula of taking its styling cues from feline anatomy is building on solid ground and deserves to suceed.
Perhaps you'd like to see one with a shaggy mane? Or should that be fury dice?
The outgoing XJ is far better looking than the vast majority of cars on the road today and all of its competitors, so a new one which doesn't vary radically from this formula of taking its styling cues from feline anatomy is building on solid ground and deserves to suceed.
Perhaps you'd like to see one with a shaggy mane? Or should that be fury dice?
Robert Farage is one of many automotive writers that consistantly trashes Jaguar for being Jaguar. Jaguar did not drastically restyle thier XJ for one reason- they already had the best looking sedan in the world. Your comments about the rest of the line are likewise misguided in the extreme. I have owned 4 Jaguars, and my current X-type 2.5 is by far the best car I have ever owned. It looks and handles fantasticly well and, unlike the BMWs and Jap crap that infest my neighborhood, has loads of character. Unlike the competition, it has a wood and leather trimmed interior. And the handling, especially in the rain or snow, is flawless. Witless, Mini-Me X-type? Your comments are obscene sir. I demand satisfaction
Farago seems to have a penchant for negatively commenting about the still popular fads of big trucks and the like, but I've not read a lot of his stuff. That probably goes over well in the Uk. But in the states it can start to sound like liberal moaning. But, I may be misreading things.
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