How does he keep the Red Wall from being rebuilt?
Discussion
Really aiming this post at those of you who live in so called Labour Heartland constituency behind the Red Wall (whether just gained by the tories or not) to ask for your thoughts on what the government has to do now to stop them returning to labour next election.
Personally I'm not convinced this was just about Brexit being done, but more to do with the perception of being left behind and other big social problems.
I heard George Osbourne mention this last night, and he said it is a generational issue that has defeated successive governments for years.
Living in one of those areas (didn't go to a Tory gain but significant swing to them) I have seen the relative deprivation, the absence of the so called "suit" jobs or IT jobs and the prevalence of call centres, youngsters being NEET, the institutionalised lack of ambition across large numbers of the city which probably most of these areas experience, the groups of people (mainly young men up to their 30's but some women and older people too) hanging around on street corners drinking etc etc.
So what can be done? My thoughts are he needs to so something with short term gains (infrastructure such as new roads, Fibre, extend the metro maybe) to kick start things off together with a big emphasis on educational improvements and NHS improvements but of course these latter issues take time.
There has been a suggestion for a free port in the region too, there is an advanced manufacturing park under construction locally if it works, but the council has decided to use one of the premier building areas in the centre of the city for a new civic hall rather than to attract well paid jobs as was their original intention so maybe there's not a lot of interest in the area from such business (call centres seem to be taking the remaining spaces).
Any big ideas out there at all? What can the government do short term to retain the seats and longer term to improve the productivity of these ares and rebalance the economy between north and south?
Personally I'm not convinced this was just about Brexit being done, but more to do with the perception of being left behind and other big social problems.
I heard George Osbourne mention this last night, and he said it is a generational issue that has defeated successive governments for years.
Living in one of those areas (didn't go to a Tory gain but significant swing to them) I have seen the relative deprivation, the absence of the so called "suit" jobs or IT jobs and the prevalence of call centres, youngsters being NEET, the institutionalised lack of ambition across large numbers of the city which probably most of these areas experience, the groups of people (mainly young men up to their 30's but some women and older people too) hanging around on street corners drinking etc etc.
So what can be done? My thoughts are he needs to so something with short term gains (infrastructure such as new roads, Fibre, extend the metro maybe) to kick start things off together with a big emphasis on educational improvements and NHS improvements but of course these latter issues take time.
There has been a suggestion for a free port in the region too, there is an advanced manufacturing park under construction locally if it works, but the council has decided to use one of the premier building areas in the centre of the city for a new civic hall rather than to attract well paid jobs as was their original intention so maybe there's not a lot of interest in the area from such business (call centres seem to be taking the remaining spaces).
Any big ideas out there at all? What can the government do short term to retain the seats and longer term to improve the productivity of these ares and rebalance the economy between north and south?
For me, it is chicken and egg. No large employer is going to moved well paying skilled jobs to an area unless there is a skilled workforce available and skilled workers aren't going to move to an area unless there are plenty of well paying jobs.
The solution as I see it is specialisation. In the US certain cities have an industry they focus on, IT in San Francisco, entertainment in LA, finance in New York, democracy in Washington. However in Britain everything is centred on London. This means that no matter what industry you want to work in your best chances of getting a job are in London and in turn, if you are a company the best chance of you attracting the top talent is in London.
Therefore, the government should allocate industries to northern cities and encourage companies to move. For example, the BBC moved some of its production to Salford Quays. This (or the wider Manchester area) should become the entertainment capital and all TV and film should be encourage to move to Salford and Manchester, therefore it becomes the UK's Los Angeles.
This is the only way I can see a meaningful redistribution of decent jobs away from the south east and particularly London.
The solution as I see it is specialisation. In the US certain cities have an industry they focus on, IT in San Francisco, entertainment in LA, finance in New York, democracy in Washington. However in Britain everything is centred on London. This means that no matter what industry you want to work in your best chances of getting a job are in London and in turn, if you are a company the best chance of you attracting the top talent is in London.
Therefore, the government should allocate industries to northern cities and encourage companies to move. For example, the BBC moved some of its production to Salford Quays. This (or the wider Manchester area) should become the entertainment capital and all TV and film should be encourage to move to Salford and Manchester, therefore it becomes the UK's Los Angeles.
This is the only way I can see a meaningful redistribution of decent jobs away from the south east and particularly London.
CzechItOut said:
For me, it is chicken and egg. No large employer is going to moved well paying skilled jobs to an area unless there is a skilled workforce available and skilled workers aren't going to move to an area unless there are plenty of well paying jobs.
The solution as I see it is specialisation. In the US certain cities have an industry they focus on, IT in San Francisco, entertainment in LA, finance in New York, democracy in Washington. However in Britain everything is centred on London. This means that no matter what industry you want to work in your best chances of getting a job are in London and in turn, if you are a company the best chance of you attracting the top talent is in London.
Therefore, the government should allocate industries to northern cities and encourage companies to move. For example, the BBC moved some of its production to Salford Quays. This (or the wider Manchester area) should become the entertainment capital and all TV and film should be encourage to move to Salford and Manchester, therefore it becomes the UK's Los Angeles.
This is the only way I can see a meaningful redistribution of decent jobs away from the south east and particularly London.
Quite, you need shipyards and factories, manufacturing and other productive industries. These create a wide variety of jobs from the bottom up, cleaners to management. Supply chains grow and the local areas prosper.The solution as I see it is specialisation. In the US certain cities have an industry they focus on, IT in San Francisco, entertainment in LA, finance in New York, democracy in Washington. However in Britain everything is centred on London. This means that no matter what industry you want to work in your best chances of getting a job are in London and in turn, if you are a company the best chance of you attracting the top talent is in London.
Therefore, the government should allocate industries to northern cities and encourage companies to move. For example, the BBC moved some of its production to Salford Quays. This (or the wider Manchester area) should become the entertainment capital and all TV and film should be encourage to move to Salford and Manchester, therefore it becomes the UK's Los Angeles.
This is the only way I can see a meaningful redistribution of decent jobs away from the south east and particularly London.
Its almost like Brexit could be used to encourage this if we handle it right....
Getragdogleg said:
Quite, you need shipyards and factories, manufacturing and other productive industries. These create a wide variety of jobs from the bottom up, cleaners to management. Supply chains grow and the local areas prosper.
Its almost like Brexit could be used to encourage this if we handle it right....
Those jobs are gone. Either to the Far East or automation. People need to move on from manufacturing and look forwards, not backwards.Its almost like Brexit could be used to encourage this if we handle it right....
steveatesh said:
Living in one of those areas (didn't go to a Tory gain but significant swing to them) I have seen the relative deprivation, the absence of the so called "suit" jobs or IT jobs and the prevalence of call centres, youngsters being NEET, the institutionalised lack of ambition across large numbers of the city which probably most of these areas experience, the groups of people (mainly young men up to their 30's but some women and older people too) hanging around on street corners drinking etc etc.
And enough northern constituencies have just voted for the party which caused and embedded all this, to return it to power after 10 years of putting them in the mincer? What the actual f
k?Christ almighty.
CzechItOut said:
Those jobs are gone. Either to the Far East or automation. People need to move on from manufacturing and look forwards, not backwards.
What should they move forward to? How is a guy who is highly skilled in making widgets move into something totally different, now that the widgets are made by a robot or in China?
ElectricSoup said:
steveatesh said:
Living in one of those areas (didn't go to a Tory gain but significant swing to them) I have seen the relative deprivation, the absence of the so called "suit" jobs or IT jobs and the prevalence of call centres, youngsters being NEET, the institutionalised lack of ambition across large numbers of the city which probably most of these areas experience, the groups of people (mainly young men up to their 30's but some women and older people too) hanging around on street corners drinking etc etc.
And enough northern constituencies have just voted for the party which caused and embedded all this, to return it to power after 10 years of putting them in the mincer? What the actual fk?Christ almighty.
The red wall is traditionally a generational hatred against the Thatcher years. If Boris is able to deliver on Brexit and also show that money can be spent in those 'red' areas, then hopefully we are now reaching a generation that has become time-disconnected from the Thatcher legacy.
But of course although the MP may be blue, the council within communities in those 'red' areas may still also be 'red' - this will play a large part in how much such councils will want to spend to try and improve areas whilst a Tory government is in power.
But of course although the MP may be blue, the council within communities in those 'red' areas may still also be 'red' - this will play a large part in how much such councils will want to spend to try and improve areas whilst a Tory government is in power.
I guess the key is improving the areas that voted blue.
Things like new roads, rail and other infrastructure upgrades which are very visible and a sign to companies that the area is open to business.
Looking at relocating government jobs, and encouraging companies to settle there.
Generally showing that the Conservatives care about the areas that have been run down for years under Labour MP's. With Brexit on the horizon it won't be easy, however if done right then you could find a new wave of seats that see the benefit of conservative government vs Labour alternative.
Things like new roads, rail and other infrastructure upgrades which are very visible and a sign to companies that the area is open to business.
Looking at relocating government jobs, and encouraging companies to settle there.
Generally showing that the Conservatives care about the areas that have been run down for years under Labour MP's. With Brexit on the horizon it won't be easy, however if done right then you could find a new wave of seats that see the benefit of conservative government vs Labour alternative.
abzmike said:
What should they move forward to?
How is a guy who is highly skilled in making widgets move into something totally different, now that the widgets are made by a robot or in China?
They retrain like everyone else has to do.How is a guy who is highly skilled in making widgets move into something totally different, now that the widgets are made by a robot or in China?
The government certainly shouldn't be deciding which industry should set up where. The free port option is probably the best one. Tax incentives and loosening planning laws could also help.
I have wanted to move away from the South East for many years now.
But in the industry I work in, the jobs out there are very few and far between and most, because of excess immigration and deskilling are minimum wage.
the entire working class population has been pretty much deskilled, removed from factories and plonked into dole, ebay shops and sunday markets, because they are taught that life will be great at school, and they think taking an A level in Social studies will get them a great job in a bank, but the only job they can even try and get is Amazon warehouse down the road as that is all that's where the old Lucas plant used to be where theri Dad worked up to being a foreman.
This is reflected in every town I have lived in pretty much even down here. Some have moved on, especially down here, but most in the Labour belt have not.
But in the industry I work in, the jobs out there are very few and far between and most, because of excess immigration and deskilling are minimum wage.
the entire working class population has been pretty much deskilled, removed from factories and plonked into dole, ebay shops and sunday markets, because they are taught that life will be great at school, and they think taking an A level in Social studies will get them a great job in a bank, but the only job they can even try and get is Amazon warehouse down the road as that is all that's where the old Lucas plant used to be where theri Dad worked up to being a foreman.
This is reflected in every town I have lived in pretty much even down here. Some have moved on, especially down here, but most in the Labour belt have not.
Dr Jekyll said:
They retrain like everyone else has to do.
The government certainly shouldn't be deciding which industry should set up where. The free port option is probably the best one. Tax incentives and loosening planning laws could also help.
A more sophisticated answer is required, rather than just telling people to get on with it.The government certainly shouldn't be deciding which industry should set up where. The free port option is probably the best one. Tax incentives and loosening planning laws could also help.
From a north east perspective (who also went blue last night).
I think there has been a misconception about labour support up here that has finally been born out in this election.
Labour is widely hated. People are sick to death of what they see as lazy Labour MPs and Councils who sit in office smugly knowing that they will be there for years.
The Tories suffer from Thatcher's legacy but whilst time moves on this becomes less relevant as mentioned above, the reality is that this has remained a barrier to change.
What was needed was a new thing/idea/opportunity/shock and Brexit was that thing. It wasn't necessarily about Brexit itself, it was about breaking the deadlock and stalemate.
Johnston is bang on when he talks about voters lending him their vote, they've trusted him so he needs to deliver. My thoughts on how:
Elected Regional Mayors.
Regardless of the national result, pretty much everything is controlled by Labour Councils. They will out of spite do everything they can to block any form of progress that might reflect well on the Tory government. They wield the power, so this power needs taking off them or at least there being the opportunity to usurp it.
LA boundaries are also a large barrier to change. It is absurd that different LA spend more time arguing about which side of a road/river the new employer locates to rather than trying to attract the new employer in the first place.
Once there is a strong political lead, with the power to get things done, then you can talk about infrastructure and job relocation from London etc.
I can't tell you the impact the loss of Sure Start schemes has had on the area. Not fashionable on PH, but in the real world, these used to make a huge difference to people's lives and a return of something similar will speak directly to the new Tory voters.
Hospitals and schools, but then that's hardly original.
I think there has been a misconception about labour support up here that has finally been born out in this election.
Labour is widely hated. People are sick to death of what they see as lazy Labour MPs and Councils who sit in office smugly knowing that they will be there for years.
The Tories suffer from Thatcher's legacy but whilst time moves on this becomes less relevant as mentioned above, the reality is that this has remained a barrier to change.
What was needed was a new thing/idea/opportunity/shock and Brexit was that thing. It wasn't necessarily about Brexit itself, it was about breaking the deadlock and stalemate.
Johnston is bang on when he talks about voters lending him their vote, they've trusted him so he needs to deliver. My thoughts on how:
Elected Regional Mayors.
Regardless of the national result, pretty much everything is controlled by Labour Councils. They will out of spite do everything they can to block any form of progress that might reflect well on the Tory government. They wield the power, so this power needs taking off them or at least there being the opportunity to usurp it.
LA boundaries are also a large barrier to change. It is absurd that different LA spend more time arguing about which side of a road/river the new employer locates to rather than trying to attract the new employer in the first place.
Once there is a strong political lead, with the power to get things done, then you can talk about infrastructure and job relocation from London etc.
I can't tell you the impact the loss of Sure Start schemes has had on the area. Not fashionable on PH, but in the real world, these used to make a huge difference to people's lives and a return of something similar will speak directly to the new Tory voters.
Hospitals and schools, but then that's hardly original.
abzmike said:
Dr Jekyll said:
They retrain like everyone else has to do.
The government certainly shouldn't be deciding which industry should set up where. The free port option is probably the best one. Tax incentives and loosening planning laws could also help.
A more sophisticated answer is required, rather than just telling people to get on with it.The government certainly shouldn't be deciding which industry should set up where. The free port option is probably the best one. Tax incentives and loosening planning laws could also help.
I've known a nurse become a lawyer, an accountant become a paramedic, a teacher who used to work on a factory floor and a network technician who used to work as a miner.
What do you think happened to all the shorthand typists?
abzmike said:
Dr Jekyll said:
They retrain like everyone else has to do.
The government certainly shouldn't be deciding which industry should set up where. The free port option is probably the best one. Tax incentives and loosening planning laws could also help.
A more sophisticated answer is required, rather than just telling people to get on with it.The government certainly shouldn't be deciding which industry should set up where. The free port option is probably the best one. Tax incentives and loosening planning laws could also help.
I've known a nurse become a lawyer, an accountant become a paramedic, a teacher who used to work on a factory floor and a network technician who used to work as a miner.
What do you think happened to all the shorthand typists?
Dr Jekyll said:
Whenever my skills have become obsolete I've retrained, it might not have been 'sophisticated' but it kept me in work.
I've known a nurse become a lawyer, an accountant become a paramedic, a teacher who used to work on a factory floor and a network technician who used to work as a miner.
What do you think happened to all the shorthand typists?
Not everybody is like you though. Not everybody has the ability, knowledge, gumption, aspiration, self confidence, belief etc etc that it takes to do that. I've known a nurse become a lawyer, an accountant become a paramedic, a teacher who used to work on a factory floor and a network technician who used to work as a miner.
What do you think happened to all the shorthand typists?
People are different and most require a lot of support to retrain.
ben5575 said:
Not everybody is like you though. Not everybody has the ability, knowledge, gumption, aspiration, self confidence, belief etc etc that it takes to do that.
People are different and most require a lot of support to retrain.
Some people are lazy, yes. But that's their choice.People are different and most require a lot of support to retrain.
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