Post office Computer Fault
Discussion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568762/P...
Lots of people accused of theft and many having to pay out shortfalls, people fired, branches closed.
Apparently it was a faulty computer.
Is there no manual way of tracking how much money should really be around and even if there wasn't how is it no one noticed a pattern of events going wrong.
Lots of people accused of theft and many having to pay out shortfalls, people fired, branches closed.
Apparently it was a faulty computer.
Is there no manual way of tracking how much money should really be around and even if there wasn't how is it no one noticed a pattern of events going wrong.
Macski said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568762/P...
Lots of people accused of theft and many having to pay out shortfalls, people fired, branches closed.
Apparently it was a faulty computer.
Is there no manual way of tracking how much money should really be around and even if there wasn't how is it no one noticed a pattern of events going wrong.
I heard about this on R4 yesterday or the day before. People were sent to prison, FFS!! Lots of people accused of theft and many having to pay out shortfalls, people fired, branches closed.
Apparently it was a faulty computer.
Is there no manual way of tracking how much money should really be around and even if there wasn't how is it no one noticed a pattern of events going wrong.
I'd love to get into the details of how this can happen - how you can have an entirely automated system that seems to be so closed and so complicated that it's virtually impossible to audit by a human. However, I believe that they said the judgement ran to something like 700K+ words and included several huge technical appendices so I doubt I'll be reading it anytime soon.
mouseymousey said:
There is a crowdfunded journalist who has been covering the case for some time. His website is postofficetrial.com and is well worth a read.
I think he may be the chap they were speaking to on the radio yesterday. I'll certainly have a read through as soon as I get a chance.CobolMan said:
Private Eye have been covering the problems with Horizon for years. The Post Office, quite rightly, do not come out of it well.
Yet nothing was done. It had regular reports, from computer experts, but still the courts refused to entertain the possibility that the PO was just wrong. Many feel, I think is the best way of putting it, that officials in the PO must have known of the errors but decided to go along with the most profitable option. I don't know of course, but it stinks. Seems bizzare to me.
Listening to R4 and others it seemed to go down like this.
P.O. install new system
All of a sudden post masters report errors and false transactions
P.O ignore it don’t believe them.
Then start prosecuting
Noooooo can’t be the new system it’s a complete coincidence, post masters that have been for generations all of a sudden turn into fraudsters over night.
One lady was even being trained on the system and the trainer saw what was happening. He just kept saying it will sort itself out.
She went to prison.
Listening to R4 and others it seemed to go down like this.
P.O. install new system
All of a sudden post masters report errors and false transactions
P.O ignore it don’t believe them.
Then start prosecuting
Noooooo can’t be the new system it’s a complete coincidence, post masters that have been for generations all of a sudden turn into fraudsters over night.
One lady was even being trained on the system and the trainer saw what was happening. He just kept saying it will sort itself out.
She went to prison.
My son worked in a post office and the postmaster was sacked/struck off whatever happens to them because of alleged financial irregularities that he couldn't explain. We and everyone assumed he was fiddling but our lad swore blind he wasn't. Lost his shop, marriage broke up, utter mess.
My son worked in a post office and the postmaster was sacked/struck off whatever happens to them because of alleged financial irregularities that he couldn't explain. We and everyone assumed he was fiddling but our lad swore blind he wasn't. Lost his shop, marriage broke up, utter mess.
Macneil said:
My son worked in a post office and the postmaster was sacked/struck off whatever happens to them because of alleged financial irregularities that he couldn't explain. We and everyone assumed he was fiddling but our lad swore blind he wasn't. Lost his shop, marriage broke up, utter mess.
It is shocking and it looks like that out of the £57 million settlement, after costs, the postmasters will get around £20k each on average. Disgusting. We haven't heard the end of it though with the judge forwarding a file to the DPP. I must admit that I know bugger all about the judiciary but the judge seems to have gone to extraordinary effort to understand this case and rule on it.
I’d like to see whoever was overseeing the post office when this went on bought to account, but I expect they’re currently lying on a Caribbean beach with a gold plated pension... this has been covered a lot in our local press as one of our post offices was one affected. The whole thing stinks.
Cupramax said:
I’d like to see whoever was overseeing the post office when this went on bought to account, but I expect they’re currently lying on a Caribbean beach with a gold plated pension... this has been covered a lot in our local press as one of our post offices was one affected. The whole thing stinks.
Indeed. Issues were known about for years. https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252459274/Post...
https://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Computer-Weekl...
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/15/post_offi...
Cupramax said:
I’d like to see whoever was overseeing the post office when this went on bought to account, but I expect they’re currently lying on a Caribbean beach with a gold plated pension... this has been covered a lot in our local press as one of our post offices was one affected. The whole thing stinks.
Most recent ex-boss now works in the Cabinet Office so not much chance of that.Macski said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568762/P...
Lots of people accused of theft and many having to pay out shortfalls, people fired, branches closed.
Apparently it was a faulty computer.
Is there no manual way of tracking how much money should really be around and even if there wasn't how is it no one noticed a pattern of events going wrong.
You can do a till printout, but the till gets it's data from Horizon so it won't reconcile...Lots of people accused of theft and many having to pay out shortfalls, people fired, branches closed.
Apparently it was a faulty computer.
Is there no manual way of tracking how much money should really be around and even if there wasn't how is it no one noticed a pattern of events going wrong.
mouseymousey said:
Cupramax said:
I’d like to see whoever was overseeing the post office when this went on bought to account, but I expect they’re currently lying on a Caribbean beach with a gold plated pension... this has been covered a lot in our local press as one of our post offices was one affected. The whole thing stinks.
Most recent ex-boss now works in the Cabinet Office so not much chance of that.Been following this 'massive injustice' story for a long time now after my local Postmaster first told me about it.
Makes you f. ashamed to be British!
To think the justice system allowed Seema Misra to be jailed (just one of the hundreds of sub-postmasters accused, villified, whose lives were or have been ruined or ended). Seema got 15 mths inside - while 8 wks pregnant with her 2nd child and was actually jailed on her son's 10th birthday!
Everybody whether at home or in business experiences IT glitches that cause problems, sometimes serious, just like these did for the postmasters - the problem here was not that, it was the way those at the helm of the Post Office handled it, accusing point blank, end of story, that's it, you're guilty as hell!
At the helm was British businesswoman (and Anglican priest!), CEO Paula Vennells. All on her watch. Always nice to have a pic too see what these people look like!
Now the s
t has really hit the fan any apology for all the poor sods caught up in this long scandal? Nah, ...she's gone.
Wondering where she is now?
How about Chair of Imperial College Healthcare Trust, one of the largest NHS hospital groups.
You couldn't make this s
t up.And what if freelance hack Nick Wallis (he should get a f. HUGE medal!) had never taken his investigation up, which all started when Nick was live on air and he got a random tweet from Seema's husband, Davinder, asking him if he'd like to use Davinder's West Byfleet-based taxi service?
Nick replied that would depend on whether he had any good stories to tell?
Davinder said something like "Oh, I've got a story to tell alright."
Nick took his number, they spoke on the phone and he went to see him.
This was in November 2010!!
Nick found a bit more and took the story to his boss at BBC Surrey and his colleagues at Inside Out South.
Almost three months later on Mon 7 Feb 2011, they broadcast the first news about this scandal on BBC 1 South.
Nick's website deserves a read. It will take you a while though!!
https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/01/articles.h...
As others have mentioned, Private Eye have been covering this for a few years now and I have been following it where I can.
The whole thing is beyond disgraceful. Totally and utterly a disgrace from top to bottom.
People lost their houses, savings, and businesses.
It makes you even more mad when you read things like this:
"One former subpostmaster told Wallis: "This is nothing but a great win for the Post Office. My losses alone came to £200,000. This compensation will not cover the fraudulent claims that the Post Office took from me. I am 75 and still work to live and pay my mortgage. There will be no celebrating this decision."
Wallis said Post Office directors were likely smiling at the news and congratulating their press officers at getting it released today, while the UK General Election is taking place and British media attention is elsewhere.
The case dates back to the turn of the century when the Post Office began accusing thousands of subpostmasters of dipping into the tills based on "evidence" from its Horizon IT platform. Many were told to pay back supposedly missing funds or face prosecution. Some were convicted and imprisoned while hundreds more pleaded guilty to lesser charges to end further action."
The whole thing is beyond disgraceful. Totally and utterly a disgrace from top to bottom.
People lost their houses, savings, and businesses.
It makes you even more mad when you read things like this:
"One former subpostmaster told Wallis: "This is nothing but a great win for the Post Office. My losses alone came to £200,000. This compensation will not cover the fraudulent claims that the Post Office took from me. I am 75 and still work to live and pay my mortgage. There will be no celebrating this decision."
Wallis said Post Office directors were likely smiling at the news and congratulating their press officers at getting it released today, while the UK General Election is taking place and British media attention is elsewhere.
The case dates back to the turn of the century when the Post Office began accusing thousands of subpostmasters of dipping into the tills based on "evidence" from its Horizon IT platform. Many were told to pay back supposedly missing funds or face prosecution. Some were convicted and imprisoned while hundreds more pleaded guilty to lesser charges to end further action."
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