New Bikes - Electronics / Blippers etc
Discussion
Hi all,
I’m brand new to biking and currently own a GSXR 750 L0 which has no “rider aids” etc.
I’m keen to know what the general consensus is on the latest crop of sports bikes with all the bells and whistles?
Is learning on a bike with everything going to give you the skill of someone who has learnt without any electronics?
Does it give you a greater sense of confidence?
I’m asking this as twice in the space of 6 weeks I’ve had the rear tyre light up and on both occasions I’ve dealt with it and learnt from it.
On a newer bike with TC I’m guessing I could be banging the throttle back all the time and just let the bike deal with it.
Do you feel this assistance is taking away the rawness from riding?
I’m not wanting to bash the technology, if anything it appeals to me as a safety blanket, I love the idea of a quick shifter and auto blipper, lean angle abs etc!
I’m brand new to biking and currently own a GSXR 750 L0 which has no “rider aids” etc.
I’m keen to know what the general consensus is on the latest crop of sports bikes with all the bells and whistles?
Is learning on a bike with everything going to give you the skill of someone who has learnt without any electronics?
Does it give you a greater sense of confidence?
I’m asking this as twice in the space of 6 weeks I’ve had the rear tyre light up and on both occasions I’ve dealt with it and learnt from it.
On a newer bike with TC I’m guessing I could be banging the throttle back all the time and just let the bike deal with it.
Do you feel this assistance is taking away the rawness from riding?
I’m not wanting to bash the technology, if anything it appeals to me as a safety blanket, I love the idea of a quick shifter and auto blipper, lean angle abs etc!
Where are you riding? On the road I’d have all the modern electronics I could as I like the safety of them, and as said above treat the lights as a sign to calm it down.
On track I can see the argument for not having them, I do also think well I’m never going to be a racer so do I need to hone my skills that much or am I just there to have fun?!
On track I can see the argument for not having them, I do also think well I’m never going to be a racer so do I need to hone my skills that much or am I just there to have fun?!
What toxicnerve said. The sophistication of the electronics makes a difference too
I would always want decent abs for road. My gsxr was rubbish and intrusive but other bikes out there are much better
TC again depends on the bike. My old mv was very basic like an mt10. It would cut in but I definitely wouldn't trust it 100% however my Aprilia is very good...but they have typically 8 levels so again depends where set
I would always want decent abs for road. My gsxr was rubbish and intrusive but other bikes out there are much better
TC again depends on the bike. My old mv was very basic like an mt10. It would cut in but I definitely wouldn't trust it 100% however my Aprilia is very good...but they have typically 8 levels so again depends where set
I know its popular to bash new-er bikes with all the rider aids, takes away all the "skill" of riding, robs the rider of feel etc etc. b
ks IMHO
I'm an older fart and have a few bikes from the 1980s so one part of me is in the "old is best " camp but I bought a new bike in 2018 and I absolutely love the quickshifter, the riding modes, the launch control is nonsense but fun..
Having relived the moment a few times, I believe even the ABS saved my ass on a wet , oily and extremely slippery toll booth when a car suddenly changed lanes and took up my space.
Remember the electronics don't allow you to defy the laws of physics , I still nearly dropped my new bike after having a new rear tyre fitted and not paying attention, what ive found is the confidence these items bring, allowing you to travel faster, more safely in any condition....and in more comfort, when your covering some distance, a QS, cruise control and heated grips make for a much less fatiguing ride as well.
You wont be robbed of any learning process by going to a newer bike in my opinion, most peoples bottle will go before things like TC kick in on a dry road, you can turn it all off anyway if you wish, which is what I do if I want to dick about ...A couple of small slides in the wet will not have added to your learning and in all honesty, will still have been felt even with a TC system in play....unless you held the slide and powered out of it of course...!
No, I love the old stuff and i love the newer stuff for what it does as well...Once you've experienced the pleasure of blatting thru the box on a wide open throttle and then smashing it down the box again using a quickshifter with some popping and banging, you'll have a huge smile on your face and wouldnt look back..Id love one on my LC in all honesty but I dont think the box would take kindly to it..
ks IMHOI'm an older fart and have a few bikes from the 1980s so one part of me is in the "old is best " camp but I bought a new bike in 2018 and I absolutely love the quickshifter, the riding modes, the launch control is nonsense but fun..
Having relived the moment a few times, I believe even the ABS saved my ass on a wet , oily and extremely slippery toll booth when a car suddenly changed lanes and took up my space.
Remember the electronics don't allow you to defy the laws of physics , I still nearly dropped my new bike after having a new rear tyre fitted and not paying attention, what ive found is the confidence these items bring, allowing you to travel faster, more safely in any condition....and in more comfort, when your covering some distance, a QS, cruise control and heated grips make for a much less fatiguing ride as well.
You wont be robbed of any learning process by going to a newer bike in my opinion, most peoples bottle will go before things like TC kick in on a dry road, you can turn it all off anyway if you wish, which is what I do if I want to dick about ...A couple of small slides in the wet will not have added to your learning and in all honesty, will still have been felt even with a TC system in play....unless you held the slide and powered out of it of course...!
No, I love the old stuff and i love the newer stuff for what it does as well...Once you've experienced the pleasure of blatting thru the box on a wide open throttle and then smashing it down the box again using a quickshifter with some popping and banging, you'll have a huge smile on your face and wouldnt look back..Id love one on my LC in all honesty but I dont think the box would take kindly to it..
Personally I don't feel like they play a huge part on the road, of course they can be useful in that they might stop the bike stepping out/slipping on diesel etc sometimes but a lot of the time it's hard to ride hard enough for them to intervene a great deal, perhaps it's just because I'm in the SE but it's pretty difficult to be in a situation where you're lent over enough and pinning the throttle wide open out of a corner.On a track though it's a different matter, personally I think they're great, although as I too learnt on older bikes it was a bit of a mental block at first pinning the throttle out of corners when your brain is screaming at you not to.
Blipper and quickshifters are nice, ABS is good.
Blipper and quickshifters are nice, ABS is good.
Edited by Walter Sobchak on Wednesday 18th December 23:18
It depends on you really. You can either ride the bike whilst fully relying in the aids, so pin the throttle and brake as hard as you can, all the time, or you can use them as a safety net, by seeing how much you can push without turning the lights on. One of them is fun, the other is not!
The Africa Twin has 3 TC modes (and "off"), I leave it in the standard mode for most of my road riding, and when it kicks in, it really cuts the power. It happened on a couple of greasy patches, when leaving give way lines, and it felt like there was no throttle at all.
The Africa Twin has 3 TC modes (and "off"), I leave it in the standard mode for most of my road riding, and when it kicks in, it really cuts the power. It happened on a couple of greasy patches, when leaving give way lines, and it felt like there was no throttle at all.
As previously said, on the road I treat the flashing amber light as 'calm down, you're not a GP rider'.
I mean, in a car, would you be driving to the point the TC, ESC etc is flashing and you rely on it to keep you on the black stuff?
Riding an old bike will mean you are far more conscious of the fact you do not have a safety net and its down to you, so will at least teach you a bit of self control, which is no bad thing.
I really rate the newer Ducati systems, very unobtrusive.
I mean, in a car, would you be driving to the point the TC, ESC etc is flashing and you rely on it to keep you on the black stuff?
Riding an old bike will mean you are far more conscious of the fact you do not have a safety net and its down to you, so will at least teach you a bit of self control, which is no bad thing.
I really rate the newer Ducati systems, very unobtrusive.
I've been riding bikes for over 20 years now and probably since 2010 I've had bikes with electronics, do they make you a better rider I'd say no?
In my opinion it's good to learn throttle control, braking and so on on a bike with no rider aids, they you can learn/feel how the bike reacts to the subtle inputs, let alone the bigger ones.
My current steed has pretty much everything, traction, cornering abs, semi-active suspension, anti-wheelie, blipper to name a few, am I happy about it... yes! On the road it's sublime, on a race track it comes into it's own, I don't abuse the throttle but it's nice to know I have a safety net I can "play" with without punishment. In all honesty I probably don't lean on the electronics enough on track to get the most out of them and the bike, i.e. opening the throttle 100% on the exit of a corner, rather than rolling on.
In my opinion it's good to learn throttle control, braking and so on on a bike with no rider aids, they you can learn/feel how the bike reacts to the subtle inputs, let alone the bigger ones.
My current steed has pretty much everything, traction, cornering abs, semi-active suspension, anti-wheelie, blipper to name a few, am I happy about it... yes! On the road it's sublime, on a race track it comes into it's own, I don't abuse the throttle but it's nice to know I have a safety net I can "play" with without punishment. In all honesty I probably don't lean on the electronics enough on track to get the most out of them and the bike, i.e. opening the throttle 100% on the exit of a corner, rather than rolling on.
SteveS Cup said:
On a newer bike with TC I’m guessing I could be banging the throttle back all the time and just let the bike deal with it.
Do you feel this assistance is taking away the rawness from riding?
it'll deal with wheelies and traction, mine has launch control for example.Do you feel this assistance is taking away the rawness from riding?
yes - anti wheelie is a stupid idea, I don't like ABS as it ranges from unpredictable to dangerous and I've not the balls to lean on traction control (but nice to know its there I suppose)
if I want nannies, I drive?
podman said:
Remember the electronics don't allow you to defy the laws of physics , what ive found is the confidence these items bring, allowing you to travel faster,
.
^^^ That is the problem with them IMO, you feel safer and travel faster until the point when you realise you just asked them to defy the laws of physics.
Obviously it depends on the rider and whether they are riding for fun or commuting - if I were a commuter I would probably want everything, coming home tired in the cold, dark and the rain, I want the safety of a car.
V8RX7 said:
podman said:
Remember the electronics don't allow you to defy the laws of physics , what ive found is the confidence these items bring, allowing you to travel faster,
.
^^^ That is the problem with them IMO, you feel safer and travel faster until the point when you realise you just asked them to defy the laws of physics.
Obviously it depends on the rider and whether they are riding for fun or commuting - if I were a commuter I would probably want everything, coming home tired in the cold, dark and the rain, I want the safety of a car.
Anyone who suggest electronics, or the lack of, makes you a better road rider is talking out their arse. To be testing the electronics or the point where electronics would kick in on bikes that don’t have electronics, would require you to be regularly riding right at the limits. On the road, regularly riding at the limits does NOT make you a good rider.
If you’re not riding to the limits then you won’t even know the electronics are there … until the unplanned/unexpected happens, at which point, they may save your skin. They have saved my skin in the past!
I treat tcs the same way as I do my airbag suit. Nice to have, give extra piece of mind, don't really want to be using them.
Quickshift and auto blipper are bloody brilliant, and I love to have them on the track. Miss them on my old bikes. ABS, meh I tend to turn it off straight away (again, on track).
New bikes are bloody brilliant.
Quickshift and auto blipper are bloody brilliant, and I love to have them on the track. Miss them on my old bikes. ABS, meh I tend to turn it off straight away (again, on track).
New bikes are bloody brilliant.
The S1000RR I seriously regret selling was a bit of an eye opener for me. I don’t think the electronics is anything like as binary as it sounds. The BMW would show you on the dash what level of electronic intervention there had been on a ride (I could see the lights flash while riding, but didn’t watch the bar charts for obvious reasons). The ABS and traction/wheelie would often be very high. I’m not a particularly fast rider, but I think the ABS was working as soon as there was a lot of weight transfer (so more triggered by the back wheel?), and the traction / wheelie was almost linked to how hard I was using the throttle, particularly when not upright. I don’t ‘think’ it saved me from an off despite sometimes showing 100% intervention, but it did get me thinking more about my riding.
The main takeaway I got from this was to really reinforce that the difference between grip and slide is far from binary and it got me thinking much more about how smoothly I rode. It was also interesting to turn them off and see how that affected my riding.
The main takeaway I got from this was to really reinforce that the difference between grip and slide is far from binary and it got me thinking much more about how smoothly I rode. It was also interesting to turn them off and see how that affected my riding.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff