CAT B Bikes - Using On The Road
Discussion
I understand the theory that CAT B means it can't go back on the road but I'm looking to practise with a supermoto so crashing is inevitable and it's only used at low speed so would happily buy a Cat B if I can get it on the road.
I understand that it generally means a new frame is required, if I had it straightened can I just stamp a new number on and re register ?
Or if I bought a new / used frame ?
I understand that it generally means a new frame is required, if I had it straightened can I just stamp a new number on and re register ?
Or if I bought a new / used frame ?
My bike is a cat B, I've owned it for around 16 years, I only found out a couple of years ago when it was brought to my attention by my insurer. They have said that in the event of a total loss they would adjust the amount payable accordingly but refuse to say by how much. .......It'd never been a problem previously.
I'm not particularly bothered as I'll probably never sell the bike & figure that if I had a bad accident, the value of the bike would be the least of my worries.
I'm not particularly bothered as I'll probably never sell the bike & figure that if I had a bad accident, the value of the bike would be the least of my worries.
I was under the impression that there are(were?) laws covering Cat A and B??
was https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/guide-cat-b-c-d-mot...
The new categories are also explained in the above.
Once it was categorised I assumed the insurer handled disposal; which would be too late to reverse and therefore Cat B wouldn't ever be available..
was https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/guide-cat-b-c-d-mot...
The new categories are also explained in the above.
Once it was categorised I assumed the insurer handled disposal; which would be too late to reverse and therefore Cat B wouldn't ever be available..
Pope said:
When my first TL's frame was damaged after a rear end shunt and subsequent trip down the road it was declared Cat B and I was told it (the frame) had to be crushed/destroyed. Oh well; as usual more than one answer.
Here's another answer as I was under the impression that CAT B could only be stripped for spares.It’s an insurance industry classification that was derived from a large car breakers as I understand it.
It’s not the law, but reams of people will tell you it is.
Ignore them. You can ride / drive a Cat B on the road legally.
When I tried it, most insurers claimed it was illegal. The one company I could find that would insure it wanted 3x the price my previous cover had cost.
So I’d just advise getting a quote first - make sure you can find someone who will cover, and that it’s not too expensive.
It’s not the law, but reams of people will tell you it is.
Ignore them. You can ride / drive a Cat B on the road legally.
When I tried it, most insurers claimed it was illegal. The one company I could find that would insure it wanted 3x the price my previous cover had cost.
So I’d just advise getting a quote first - make sure you can find someone who will cover, and that it’s not too expensive.
According to here, Cat B shouldn't be back on the road, although chuck all the parts onto a new frame and you'd be fine.
https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...
https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...
This needs clarifying
Up until late 2018 there were 4 write off categories A, B, C & D. all of these categories were voluntary, but there was an industry agreement that Cat B would only be sold to official dismantlers / breakers and would never be used on the road again. However, it was voluntary and some made their way back onto the roads
This changed in late 2018. Categories C & D were retired to be replaced by Cats S (Structural damage) and N (cosmetic / non-structural damage). There was also another change. From this date on DVLA agreed that it would no longer issue V5s for Cat B bikes, meaning they effectively became unable to return to the road. I’m not sure whether this applies only to vehicles that have been categorised as a Cat B from that date or all vehicles that are Cat B. I’d assume the former, but it’s a guess.
I’d suggest treading very carefully. Your assumption around needing a new frame is completely wrong too. Cat B is possible for any number of reasons, equally Cat S bikes could have frame damage requiring a new frame.
Cat A is irrelevant for return to road discussions as that’s for massively damaged vehicles, such as burned out ones, or ones smashed to pieces in a major accidents.
Edit just to add - you can’t just stamp a number on a frame. If you change the frame then the bike needs the frame number changing on the V5. If you ever come across a bike with a defaced frame number then it’s stolen. There is never a legal reason for it to be defaced. It is a myth that Cat B bikes have them scrubbed. They don’t. The frames from previously used bikes can be sold on their own, but must have the frame number in tact. Race bikes that were supplied for racetrack often don’t have frame numbers, but the reasons for that are obvious and should come with some rpvienance to support the lack of frame number.
Up until late 2018 there were 4 write off categories A, B, C & D. all of these categories were voluntary, but there was an industry agreement that Cat B would only be sold to official dismantlers / breakers and would never be used on the road again. However, it was voluntary and some made their way back onto the roads
This changed in late 2018. Categories C & D were retired to be replaced by Cats S (Structural damage) and N (cosmetic / non-structural damage). There was also another change. From this date on DVLA agreed that it would no longer issue V5s for Cat B bikes, meaning they effectively became unable to return to the road. I’m not sure whether this applies only to vehicles that have been categorised as a Cat B from that date or all vehicles that are Cat B. I’d assume the former, but it’s a guess.
I’d suggest treading very carefully. Your assumption around needing a new frame is completely wrong too. Cat B is possible for any number of reasons, equally Cat S bikes could have frame damage requiring a new frame.
Cat A is irrelevant for return to road discussions as that’s for massively damaged vehicles, such as burned out ones, or ones smashed to pieces in a major accidents.
Edit just to add - you can’t just stamp a number on a frame. If you change the frame then the bike needs the frame number changing on the V5. If you ever come across a bike with a defaced frame number then it’s stolen. There is never a legal reason for it to be defaced. It is a myth that Cat B bikes have them scrubbed. They don’t. The frames from previously used bikes can be sold on their own, but must have the frame number in tact. Race bikes that were supplied for racetrack often don’t have frame numbers, but the reasons for that are obvious and should come with some rpvienance to support the lack of frame number.
Edited by Keoparakolo on Monday 23 December 13:33
Keoparakolo said:
This needs clarifying
This changed in late 2018. From this date on DVLA agreed that it would no longer issue V5s for Cat B bikes, meaning they effectively became unable to return to the road.
Your assumption around needing a new frame is completely wrong too. Cat B is possible for any number of reasons,
Edit just to add - you can’t just stamp a number on a frame. If you change the frame then the bike needs the frame number changing on the V5.
I agree - hence the questionThis changed in late 2018. From this date on DVLA agreed that it would no longer issue V5s for Cat B bikes, meaning they effectively became unable to return to the road.
Your assumption around needing a new frame is completely wrong too. Cat B is possible for any number of reasons,
Edit just to add - you can’t just stamp a number on a frame. If you change the frame then the bike needs the frame number changing on the V5.
In the two cases I've come across both were the owners at the time of the accident and have the V5 in their name. You are suggesting that it may well be revoked if I sent it off to the DVLA to change it to my name - which is worth knowing.
My point ref the frame - a bike's V5 goes with the frame, effectively new frame, new bike.
My point was who knows / cares whether I bought a new frame and stamped a number into it or whether I grind off / add to / alter the existing one ? Other than I would presumably end up with a Q plate. (I'm basing this on historic knowledge of cars / kitcars, it may be different now)
Many bikes are written off for cosmetics or because the new price of parts is too high, I don't care about scratches etc to me it demonstrates that it's actually ridden.
V8RX7 said:
I agree - hence the question
In the two cases I've come across both were the owners at the time of the accident and have the V5 in their name. You are suggesting that it may well be revoked if I sent it off to the DVLA to change it to my name - which is worth knowing.
My point ref the frame - a bike's V5 goes with the frame, effectively new frame, new bike.
My point was who knows / cares whether I bought a new frame and stamped a number into it or whether I grind off / add to / alter the existing one ? Other than I would presumably end up with a Q plate. (I'm basing this on historic knowledge of cars / kitcars, it may be different now)
Many bikes are written off for cosmetics or because the new price of parts is too high, I don't care about scratches etc to me it demonstrates that it's actually ridden.
Frame - sort of, but not really. You can swap the frame, the swap the frame number on the V5 and you’ll retain the same registration number. Yes it’s a big swap from a mechanical perspective, but it’s like replacing any other part, or even the engine. The vehicle itself retains its original identity, you get just replaced a part with another one. In the two cases I've come across both were the owners at the time of the accident and have the V5 in their name. You are suggesting that it may well be revoked if I sent it off to the DVLA to change it to my name - which is worth knowing.
My point ref the frame - a bike's V5 goes with the frame, effectively new frame, new bike.
My point was who knows / cares whether I bought a new frame and stamped a number into it or whether I grind off / add to / alter the existing one ? Other than I would presumably end up with a Q plate. (I'm basing this on historic knowledge of cars / kitcars, it may be different now)
Many bikes are written off for cosmetics or because the new price of parts is too high, I don't care about scratches etc to me it demonstrates that it's actually ridden.
If you tried to sell it then people would rightly run a mile from it, as it would look very dodgy. If the police looked at it, then you’d set their spidery sense off and they’d possibly seize it until you could provide proof of ownership and history. I don’t know why you’d try to stamp your own number on it, not can I think of any reason why you’d want to.
If you get a Q plate, then you’ve just created a shedload of hassle insuring it, that probably wouldn’t justify the saving made buying a clean bike.
The last type of bike you’ve described would be an N or an S, it definitely wouldn’t be a B
V8RX7 said:
Keoparakolo said:
I don’t know why you’d try to stamp your own number on it, not can I think of any reason why you’d want to.
To register it.If the bike can't be registered on it's current identity then it needs a new identity,
From what I've seen the identity follows the frame.
It either will have a number as it’s from a previous vehicle or it won’t as its been bought as a standalone product. If the latter, then you can’t stamp your own number on it. If the former, then if that retains its original identity why do you need to stamp a number on it?
You can’t just stamp your own number on a frame, not least because you won’t have the correct font, or ability to do it properly. Can you I,atone how easy it would be to ring a vehicle if these kits were readily available?
Keoparakolo said:
Why do you need to stamp your own number on it?
It either will have a number as it’s from a previous vehicle or it won’t as its been bought as a standalone product. If the latter, then you can’t stamp your own number on it. If the former, then if that retains its original identity why do you need to stamp a number on it?
You can’t just stamp your own number on a frame, not least because you won’t have the correct font, or ability to do it properly. Can you I,atone how easy it would be to ring a vehicle if these kits were readily available?
It either will have a number as it’s from a previous vehicle or it won’t as its been bought as a standalone product. If the latter, then you can’t stamp your own number on it. If the former, then if that retains its original identity why do you need to stamp a number on it?
You can’t just stamp your own number on a frame, not least because you won’t have the correct font, or ability to do it properly. Can you I,atone how easy it would be to ring a vehicle if these kits were readily available?
If I have to change the identity, then I have to change the No.
If I bought an un-stamped race frame for example or built my own
Of course you can stamp your own no. I've done it before - it's entirely legal it's just a number the frame is identified by.
It could just be No.1
V8RX7 said:
If I have to change the identity, then I have to change the No.
If I bought an un-stamped race frame for example or built my own
Of course you can stamp your own no. I've done it before - it's entirely legal it's just a number the frame is identified by.
It could just be No.1
My cat B bike still has the original frame & no, I really don't know why it got that categorisation, I bought it when it was only a couple of years old, HPI checks had only been around for a short while & tbh I bought the bike without doing one, the seller showed me the receipt that showed he'd paid cash from a known bike dealer, there were a couple of minor marks, consistent with falling off the stand or walking pace accident nothing more.
I've ridden the bike for the last 16 years & it only got drawn to my attention when I went to insure it in the last couple of years.
I've since HPI'd it & it would appear that the cat B was declared when the bike was only a week or so old, it's been suggested that this can happen after a fatality? That could explain the lack of damage, DVLA won't help & even if they did I'd be reluctant to want to contact the original owner or their family for obvious reasons.
I have bought another frame (imported from the USA with a title) so I do have that option if I ever came to sell it, which is pretty unlikely while I can still ride.
I've been stopped by the police for speeding & small no plate but the identity or why it's on the road have never been a problem. It doesn't have any reference to the cat B on the V5C.
I've ridden the bike for the last 16 years & it only got drawn to my attention when I went to insure it in the last couple of years.
I've since HPI'd it & it would appear that the cat B was declared when the bike was only a week or so old, it's been suggested that this can happen after a fatality? That could explain the lack of damage, DVLA won't help & even if they did I'd be reluctant to want to contact the original owner or their family for obvious reasons.
I have bought another frame (imported from the USA with a title) so I do have that option if I ever came to sell it, which is pretty unlikely while I can still ride.
I've been stopped by the police for speeding & small no plate but the identity or why it's on the road have never been a problem. It doesn't have any reference to the cat B on the V5C.
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