BMW Switching to Non RFT
Discussion
Afternoon everyone.
I'm feeling a bit stuck and am after some advice as I need to change the tyres on my E92 325d.
I ditched the RFT's after cracking 4 wheels in 3 months, 2 winters ago. However, at the time I chose Yokohama Advan V701's for the rear and since then the handling of the car has been terrible.
The sidewall is too soft so it wallows and feels stodgy under any sort of cornering where you're pushing it beyond sedate driving style. It also wanders far more now as well so I am constantly making minor steering corrections which means its less relaxing/enjoyable to drive when taking it easy.
Has anyone had any experiences with a good non-RFT that doesn't cost a fortune?
My fronts need replacing now (currently Bridgestone S001 which are old hat) and the rears have about 4mm left as well...so it would be nice to get a set of 4 with stiff enough sidewalls to still enjoy driving the car relatively quickly.
TIA.
I'm feeling a bit stuck and am after some advice as I need to change the tyres on my E92 325d.
I ditched the RFT's after cracking 4 wheels in 3 months, 2 winters ago. However, at the time I chose Yokohama Advan V701's for the rear and since then the handling of the car has been terrible.
The sidewall is too soft so it wallows and feels stodgy under any sort of cornering where you're pushing it beyond sedate driving style. It also wanders far more now as well so I am constantly making minor steering corrections which means its less relaxing/enjoyable to drive when taking it easy.
Has anyone had any experiences with a good non-RFT that doesn't cost a fortune?
My fronts need replacing now (currently Bridgestone S001 which are old hat) and the rears have about 4mm left as well...so it would be nice to get a set of 4 with stiff enough sidewalls to still enjoy driving the car relatively quickly.
TIA.
AZCollins said:
Afternoon everyone.
I'm feeling a bit stuck and am after some advice as I need to change the tyres on my E92 325d.
I ditched the RFT's after cracking 4 wheels in 3 months, 2 winters ago. However, at the time I chose Yokohama Advan V701's for the rear and since then the handling of the car has been terrible.
The sidewall is too soft so it wallows and feels stodgy under any sort of cornering where you're pushing it beyond sedate driving style. It also wanders far more now as well so I am constantly making minor steering corrections which means its less relaxing/enjoyable to drive when taking it easy.
Has anyone had any experiences with a good non-RFT that doesn't cost a fortune?
My fronts need replacing now (currently Bridgestone S001 which are old hat) and the rears have about 4mm left as well...so it would be nice to get a set of 4 with stiff enough sidewalls to still enjoy driving the car relatively quickly.
TIA.
What sizes do you need?I'm feeling a bit stuck and am after some advice as I need to change the tyres on my E92 325d.
I ditched the RFT's after cracking 4 wheels in 3 months, 2 winters ago. However, at the time I chose Yokohama Advan V701's for the rear and since then the handling of the car has been terrible.
The sidewall is too soft so it wallows and feels stodgy under any sort of cornering where you're pushing it beyond sedate driving style. It also wanders far more now as well so I am constantly making minor steering corrections which means its less relaxing/enjoyable to drive when taking it easy.
Has anyone had any experiences with a good non-RFT that doesn't cost a fortune?
My fronts need replacing now (currently Bridgestone S001 which are old hat) and the rears have about 4mm left as well...so it would be nice to get a set of 4 with stiff enough sidewalls to still enjoy driving the car relatively quickly.
TIA.
I’m a huge fan of Uniroyal Rainsport 3s, Vredestein Ultrac Vorti’s and Nexen N’fera SU1s...
The Vreds have the stiffest of the sidewalls from those 3 and I much prefer them over previous PS4s I’ve had which after a few mm worn in, became loud, droned and rock hard from my experience. Never again for me
Check Camskill and/or Tyreleader for the best prices, you just need to get them fitted locally for £beertokens
d_a_n1979 said:
What sizes do you need?
I’m a huge fan of Uniroyal Rainsport 3s, Vredestein Ultrac Vorti’s and Nexen N’fera SU1s...
The Vreds have the stiffest of the sidewalls from those 3 and I much prefer them over previous PS4s I’ve had which after a few mm worn in, became loud, droned and rock hard from my experience. Never again for me
Check Camskill and/or Tyreleader for the best prices, you just need to get them fitted locally for £beertokens
The car has 19" 313's so a 225/35/19 front and 255/30/19 rear.I’m a huge fan of Uniroyal Rainsport 3s, Vredestein Ultrac Vorti’s and Nexen N’fera SU1s...
The Vreds have the stiffest of the sidewalls from those 3 and I much prefer them over previous PS4s I’ve had which after a few mm worn in, became loud, droned and rock hard from my experience. Never again for me
Check Camskill and/or Tyreleader for the best prices, you just need to get them fitted locally for £beertokens
I'll take a look at the vredestein's, I've read really positive things about them in the past but have never been able to find matching sets for both axles.
AZCollins said:
The car has 19" 313's so a 225/35/19 front and 255/30/19 rear.
I'll take a look at the vredestein's, I've read really positive things about them in the past but have never been able to find matching sets for both axles.
225/35 Vreds - https://www.camskill.co.uk/m55b0s468p113649/Vredes...I'll take a look at the vredestein's, I've read really positive things about them in the past but have never been able to find matching sets for both axles.
255/30 Vreds - https://www.camskill.co.uk/m55b0s1132p111454/Vrede...
Sticks. said:
Others will know more than me, but if it's anything like the E46, the different brands front/back will upset the handling.
It's never had matching tyres on both axles, just matching on the same axle since I've owned it. The problem with poor handling has only been present since I went non-RFT Yoko's on the rear.General advice, at least what I’ve found for my e81 130i is to go with a higher load rating on the non-rft’s than the standard fitment. Helps to offset some of the overcompliance that might have been built in to the suspension to deal with run flats. Even a very stiff non-rft seems be way more compliant and better damped tyre than a rf, so you’ll still get most of the advantages from the change.
I went to Goodyear Eagle f1 asy 3 and found them to be a good improvement all around.
They’ve obviously been replaced by asy 5’s now which I have no experience of.
I went to Goodyear Eagle f1 asy 3 and found them to be a good improvement all around.
They’ve obviously been replaced by asy 5’s now which I have no experience of.
Demelitia said:
General advice, at least what I’ve found for my e81 130i is to go with a higher load rating on the non-rft’s than the standard fitment. Helps to offset some of the overcompliance that might have been built in to the suspension to deal with run flats. Even a very stiff non-rft seems be way more compliant and better damped tyre than a rf, so you’ll still get most of the advantages from the change.
I went to Goodyear Eagle f1 asy 3 and found them to be a good improvement all around.
They’ve obviously been replaced by asy 5’s now which I have no experience of.
An 88 loading seems to be the max I can get on the fronts and then it looks like the current rears are a 91.I went to Goodyear Eagle f1 asy 3 and found them to be a good improvement all around.
They’ve obviously been replaced by asy 5’s now which I have no experience of.
Can you get higher than that for a 225/35/19 and a 255/30/19? I couldn't see anything on Blackcircles but I've not had time to look in detail on other sites such as Camskill.
AZCollins said:
It's never had matching tyres on both axles, just matching on the same axle since I've owned it. The problem with poor handling has only been present since I went non-RFT Yoko's on the rear.
You can be lucky if the tread pattern is similar, if not you're asking for twitchy handling. Mixing tyres front and rear? May as well have bought a VW imho.
I'm surprised you can feel any sidewall movement in a 255 30 19 tyre. I've binned run flats in favour of go flats on every one of my BMW cars for the last 10 years and never had a problem. Currently running 225 50 17 winters on my e61 550i and sure the car moves around a bit but I wouldn't call it out as problematic. Its just a heavy car with a soft tyre and tread blocks which are designed to move. I had an e91 335i a couple of years ago and it felt lovely on 225 45 17 front and back.
gizlaroc said:
You can be lucky if the tread pattern is similar, if not you're asking for twitchy handling.
Mixing tyres front and rear? May as well have bought a VW imho.
Thanks for being a troll, just the sort of constructive comment I was after. Same tyre on both wheels of the same axle is totally acceptable.Mixing tyres front and rear? May as well have bought a VW imho.
The E92 is my daily sh*tter so why would I replace all 4 tyres if there was a perfectly good set up front but the rears weren't far off dead and causing wheel cracking?
ATM said:
I'm surprised you can feel any sidewall movement in a 255 30 19 tyre. I've binned run flats in favour of go flats on every one of my BMW cars for the last 10 years and never had a problem. Currently running 225 50 17 winters on my e61 550i and sure the car moves around a bit but I wouldn't call it out as problematic. Its just a heavy car with a soft tyre and tread blocks which are designed to move. I had an e91 335i a couple of years ago and it felt lovely on 225 45 17 front and back.
I was very surprised too with a 91Y and a 30 sidewall. Its not problematic if you drive it normally but if you put your foot down and youre making good progress cornering it doesnt inspire confidence compared to the old tyres. I also have plenty of experience with RWD so its not that I'm not used to RWD handling.bigdom said:
Have you had the wheel alignment checked recently?
My towcar, e60 535d had recently suffered a disconnect from front and rear. It's shod with Goodyear AS3 allroad. One 4 wheel alignment later, all is good again.
I had it checked about 6 months ago and it was looking good but I'll be having it re-checked and adjusted once I have new tyres fitted just to make sure.My towcar, e60 535d had recently suffered a disconnect from front and rear. It's shod with Goodyear AS3 allroad. One 4 wheel alignment later, all is good again.
I can not understate how much of a difference it can make to handling on these cars when you have a different tyre front and rear.
The back end just feels like a squirmy, twitchy mess when they don't work together.
This has been discussed ad infinitum over the last 20 years on forums, no one believes it can be the cause until they have replaced numerous tyres on one axles, control arms, bushes, dampers, etc. etc. and then when they eventually get 4 matching tyres on their car they are suddenly believers.
I have Michelin Pilot Sports on the rear of my 330i and Goodyear Eagle F1 assyemetricals on the front, and they are almost the same tread, but, the tell tale signs are there. When you press on the back end feels a bit squidgy, and it feels like it will let go suddenly rather than very progressively like a BMW should. Also, this morning in the damp on roundabouts you could feel the traction starting to kick in, reality is, these cars should have to be pushed really, really hard for that to happen.
If you ever get it kicking in and you have mismatched tyres front and rear that is a warning that you are ruining your 'ultimate driving machine'.
The back end just feels like a squirmy, twitchy mess when they don't work together.
This has been discussed ad infinitum over the last 20 years on forums, no one believes it can be the cause until they have replaced numerous tyres on one axles, control arms, bushes, dampers, etc. etc. and then when they eventually get 4 matching tyres on their car they are suddenly believers.
I have Michelin Pilot Sports on the rear of my 330i and Goodyear Eagle F1 assyemetricals on the front, and they are almost the same tread, but, the tell tale signs are there. When you press on the back end feels a bit squidgy, and it feels like it will let go suddenly rather than very progressively like a BMW should. Also, this morning in the damp on roundabouts you could feel the traction starting to kick in, reality is, these cars should have to be pushed really, really hard for that to happen.
If you ever get it kicking in and you have mismatched tyres front and rear that is a warning that you are ruining your 'ultimate driving machine'.
AZCollins said:
Sticks. said:
Others will know more than me, but if it's anything like the E46, the different brands front/back will upset the handling.
It's never had matching tyres on both axles, just matching on the same axle since I've owned it. The problem with poor handling has only been present since I went non-RFT Yoko's on the rear.Mixing different tyre brands front to rear is even less than ideal.
Mixing runflats with non-runflats front to rear is seriously far from ideal.
Car designers and manufacturers spec the same make and model tyres on their cars front and rear for a reason - Because it's the most ideal set up for the cars handling and performance.
Regardless of what brand of tyres an owner decides to fit to their car, the manufacturers still advise owners to fit the same brand and model of tyres all round, for a reason.
This is the relevant extract from the owners manual for my BMW:
Tire replacement
To maintain good handling and vehicle response, use only tires of a single tread configuration from a single manufacturer
As soon as you start mixing tyre models/makes/formats, you start introducing compromises to the car.
tter’ put 4 matching anything on it within budget.gizlaroc said:
I can not understate how much of a difference it can make to handling on these cars when you have a different tyre front and rear.
The back end just feels like a squirmy, twitchy mess when they don't work together.
This has been discussed ad infinitum over the last 20 years on forums, no one believes it can be the cause until they have replaced numerous tyres on one axles, control arms, bushes, dampers, etc. etc. and then when they eventually get 4 matching tyres on their car they are suddenly believers.
I have Michelin Pilot Sports on the rear of my 330i and Goodyear Eagle F1 assyemetricals on the front, and they are almost the same tread, but, the tell tale signs are there. When you press on the back end feels a bit squidgy, and it feels like it will let go suddenly rather than very progressively like a BMW should. Also, this morning in the damp on roundabouts you could feel the traction starting to kick in, reality is, these cars should have to be pushed really, really hard for that to happen.
If you ever get it kicking in and you have mismatched tyres front and rear that is a warning that you are ruining your 'ultimate driving machine'.
Ok fair play and thanks for this, very informative and what you have said here, I shall take on board.The back end just feels like a squirmy, twitchy mess when they don't work together.
This has been discussed ad infinitum over the last 20 years on forums, no one believes it can be the cause until they have replaced numerous tyres on one axles, control arms, bushes, dampers, etc. etc. and then when they eventually get 4 matching tyres on their car they are suddenly believers.
I have Michelin Pilot Sports on the rear of my 330i and Goodyear Eagle F1 assyemetricals on the front, and they are almost the same tread, but, the tell tale signs are there. When you press on the back end feels a bit squidgy, and it feels like it will let go suddenly rather than very progressively like a BMW should. Also, this morning in the damp on roundabouts you could feel the traction starting to kick in, reality is, these cars should have to be pushed really, really hard for that to happen.
If you ever get it kicking in and you have mismatched tyres front and rear that is a warning that you are ruining your 'ultimate driving machine'.
As the rears are Yoko Advan Fleva V701 I assume I'd best replace the fronts with the same if thats going to be the best option to sort the handling. I don't recall the tread patterns but will take a look.
I've actually had the car in for the safety recall on the heater connector this week as well and they've advised some play in a ball joint and bush which is probably magnifying the issue further. Once they're replaced I'll sort tyres and an alignment which will hopefully sort the problem.
Thanks to everyone for your input, much appreciated. I knew RFT and non on opposing axles was far from recommended but didnt really believe it could create that much of an issue if you had a stiff enough side wall. Lesson learned.
AZCollins said:
Ok fair play and thanks for this, very informative and what you have said here, I shall take on board.
As the rears are Yoko Advan Fleva V701 I assume I'd best replace the fronts with the same if thats going to be the best option to sort the handling. I don't recall the tread patterns but will take a look.
I've actually had the car in for the safety recall on the heater connector this week as well and they've advised some play in a ball joint and bush which is probably magnifying the issue further. Once they're replaced I'll sort tyres and an alignment which will hopefully sort the problem.
Thanks to everyone for your input, much appreciated. I knew RFT and non on opposing axles was far from recommended but didnt really believe it could create that much of an issue if you had a stiff enough side wall. Lesson learned.
Yeah definitely put the same on the front as well, that will be a good tyre. As the rears are Yoko Advan Fleva V701 I assume I'd best replace the fronts with the same if thats going to be the best option to sort the handling. I don't recall the tread patterns but will take a look.
I've actually had the car in for the safety recall on the heater connector this week as well and they've advised some play in a ball joint and bush which is probably magnifying the issue further. Once they're replaced I'll sort tyres and an alignment which will hopefully sort the problem.
Thanks to everyone for your input, much appreciated. I knew RFT and non on opposing axles was far from recommended but didnt really believe it could create that much of an issue if you had a stiff enough side wall. Lesson learned.
The tyre you have on the back is a symmetrical tread pattern and the front Bridgestone is an asymmetrical tread pattern. That is not a great combo.
I have just picked up another 330i, it had PS4 on rear and Goodyear Eagle F1 3's on the front, two very similar treads, almost the same.
However, the back end once again felt loose, like it would step out at every opportunity, even under light acceleration.
I took it in yesterday and put on four new Eagle F1 5 non run flats all round. Immediately it is planted, it is now really, really hard to get the back end to kick out, even when trying.
gizlaroc said:
Yeah definitely put the same on the front as well, that will be a good tyre.
The tyre you have on the back is a symmetrical tread pattern and the front Bridgestone is an asymmetrical tread pattern. That is not a great combo.
I have just picked up another 330i, it had PS4 on rear and Goodyear Eagle F1 3's on the front, two very similar treads, almost the same.
However, the back end once again felt loose, like it would step out at every opportunity, even under light acceleration.
I took it in yesterday and put on four new Eagle F1 5 non run flats all round. Immediately it is planted, it is now really, really hard to get the back end to kick out, even when trying.
I went for Eagle F5 5 non-RFT in the end. I know the tread pattern is different but I couldn't get hold of the Yoko's at a decent price and the rears will only last another few thousand miles so I'll put Goodyear's on the rear too. The car drives much better already though and its quiter and smoother on differing road surfaces.The tyre you have on the back is a symmetrical tread pattern and the front Bridgestone is an asymmetrical tread pattern. That is not a great combo.
I have just picked up another 330i, it had PS4 on rear and Goodyear Eagle F1 3's on the front, two very similar treads, almost the same.
However, the back end once again felt loose, like it would step out at every opportunity, even under light acceleration.
I took it in yesterday and put on four new Eagle F1 5 non run flats all round. Immediately it is planted, it is now really, really hard to get the back end to kick out, even when trying.
I've had the car looked over and it looks like a significant part of the bad handling is a lower front ball joint is worn and an upper rear, inner bush is worn too, both on the off side which is where I'd notice too much give when pushing on a bit.
At least I'm getting to the bottom of the issues...just need to find a garage that'll do the work now without charging a fortune. I'd usually do it myself buy work is too busy and the weather has been too bad where I'm living.
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