Where to source a good 450 engine
Discussion
Hello Everyone, I am just a normal 4.0 owner in the usual “can’t help myself wanting more power” situation.
On the usual minibudget...to make it even worse I am based in Hungary where there are no TVR specialists...or TVRs. Mine is the only TVR registered on hungarian plate:-)
As I don’t trust in the garages here - neither my skills - I started to think of the easiest possible way to stuff another 50hp in my bone stock ‘98 4 litre and I ended up with the conclusion:
If I could buy a good 450 engine I could have the wanted hp level without digging into my engine. It seems to be easy swap what can be done without special knowlege about RV8 engines and it’s internals.
I would also sell my unmolested, perfectly working 4L serp engine (74k miles on it) to get back some money. The engine swap could’ve been recorded in the car’s papers, it is a legal mod here unlike an RR 4.6 swap for example.
Concernes:
How/Where/When will I find a GOOD 4.5 (maybe 5.0?) engine?
How/Where/When will I find a buyer for my 4L engine? Outside UK I see no chance.
My budget is tight, if I can sell the 4.0 for 1.5k £ I can pay 3-4k for the 4.5.
The usual respons for this is go FI instead but for me it is no solution as that mod is illegal here and also I want to keep it NA because I had enough of FI after owning 2xSCd 1xTCd Mx5s.
Let me know your thoughts ideas and comments please!
Thanks,
Peter
On the usual minibudget...to make it even worse I am based in Hungary where there are no TVR specialists...or TVRs. Mine is the only TVR registered on hungarian plate:-)
As I don’t trust in the garages here - neither my skills - I started to think of the easiest possible way to stuff another 50hp in my bone stock ‘98 4 litre and I ended up with the conclusion:
If I could buy a good 450 engine I could have the wanted hp level without digging into my engine. It seems to be easy swap what can be done without special knowlege about RV8 engines and it’s internals.
I would also sell my unmolested, perfectly working 4L serp engine (74k miles on it) to get back some money. The engine swap could’ve been recorded in the car’s papers, it is a legal mod here unlike an RR 4.6 swap for example.
Concernes:
How/Where/When will I find a GOOD 4.5 (maybe 5.0?) engine?
How/Where/When will I find a buyer for my 4L engine? Outside UK I see no chance.
My budget is tight, if I can sell the 4.0 for 1.5k £ I can pay 3-4k for the 4.5.
The usual respons for this is go FI instead but for me it is no solution as that mod is illegal here and also I want to keep it NA because I had enough of FI after owning 2xSCd 1xTCd Mx5s.
Let me know your thoughts ideas and comments please!
Thanks,
Peter
May be worth dropping these guys an email, may be a deal to be had somewhere if you can ship your engine to them.They are not the easiest or quickest to deal with though.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/i...
Do you know you can turn a 4.0 into a 4.6 just by using the crankshaft, con rods and pistons from the 4.6 engine?
That’s what I planned to do last year but got let down on the parts, may not interest you if you have no decent mechanics around.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/i...
Do you know you can turn a 4.0 into a 4.6 just by using the crankshaft, con rods and pistons from the 4.6 engine?
That’s what I planned to do last year but got let down on the parts, may not interest you if you have no decent mechanics around.
Thanks Belle 427, it might be a good idea.
Regarding the 4.6 mod on the 4.0 engine, will it produce more hp on 14CUX and 4.0 heads?
It is all theoretical as I really don’t want to have my engine pulled apart. There’s a good shop arround but they are overloaded all the time and specialized to mx5s.
They are good enough but the guy would say yes for such an engine only if he consider it as somekind of challange instead of a suck ouside of his comfort zone. He has a serious burn out of his job and I don’t want to begg. And if he says yes I must pay him the fee/hours and as it is an unknown engine for him and he is extremly precise it would sum up a huge labour cost.
And he has obviously no eyes for the RV8....
Regarding the 4.6 mod on the 4.0 engine, will it produce more hp on 14CUX and 4.0 heads?
It is all theoretical as I really don’t want to have my engine pulled apart. There’s a good shop arround but they are overloaded all the time and specialized to mx5s.
They are good enough but the guy would say yes for such an engine only if he consider it as somekind of challange instead of a suck ouside of his comfort zone. He has a serious burn out of his job and I don’t want to begg. And if he says yes I must pay him the fee/hours and as it is an unknown engine for him and he is extremly precise it would sum up a huge labour cost.
And he has obviously no eyes for the RV8....
Me personally having spent around £5000 on a 4.0 within the last year getting it to roughly 280 Bhp or so is to go big or go home.
This originally only started out as a camshaft swap!
By this I mean aim for the 5.0 engine from the start if the cars a keeper, it may cost a bit more in the long run but you won’t be disappointed.
This originally only started out as a camshaft swap!
By this I mean aim for the 5.0 engine from the start if the cars a keeper, it may cost a bit more in the long run but you won’t be disappointed.
Edited by Belle427 on Saturday 28th December 09:33
The problem you have is ideally you want a Tvr engine with bigger cam etc as buying a ROVER engine out of say a Range Rover it won’t be tuned like our engines.
As they are rarely sold a difficult and likely expensive proposition.
Buying a second hand R Rover lump, changing the cam then hoping it’s a good engine all comes with risks and expense.
I’d be inclined to look at getting your 4.0 (short block) rebuilt with said crank and pistons built by a reputable engine builder here in the U.K.
Because of the distance from the U.K. no option seems a cheap one moving engines about and the like, an engine brought nearer home would be wiser yet you still need to rebuild the top end with a suitable tvr cam.
If you can get a complete Tvr engine that would be the most practical solution.
Remember a RR 450 won’t have the correct cam fitted for our cars.
Changing a cam is no big deal to any skilled engine mechanic so no reason why you can’t get that done at home, so looking for a local RR engine must be your cheapest option.
As they are rarely sold a difficult and likely expensive proposition.
Buying a second hand R Rover lump, changing the cam then hoping it’s a good engine all comes with risks and expense.
I’d be inclined to look at getting your 4.0 (short block) rebuilt with said crank and pistons built by a reputable engine builder here in the U.K.
Because of the distance from the U.K. no option seems a cheap one moving engines about and the like, an engine brought nearer home would be wiser yet you still need to rebuild the top end with a suitable tvr cam.
If you can get a complete Tvr engine that would be the most practical solution.
Remember a RR 450 won’t have the correct cam fitted for our cars.
Changing a cam is no big deal to any skilled engine mechanic so no reason why you can’t get that done at home, so looking for a local RR engine must be your cheapest option.
Of course, the other option is to find a reputable Landie garage and have them simply do a cam replacement. Assuming you're on the original it would probably benefit you anything from a little to a lot!
You timing chain, followers, there's a lot to be said for that.
Maybe a suspension upgrade? Brakes?
All the above could make for a much faster car on the road as well as simply extending yours cars life.
You timing chain, followers, there's a lot to be said for that.
Maybe a suspension upgrade? Brakes?
All the above could make for a much faster car on the road as well as simply extending yours cars life.
Brakes are surprisingly good, my first upgrade was a set of new Bilsteins and a geoalignment. I am still not satisfied with road holding, one of the ball joints has slight play, I hope that things will improve after I replace it.
The RR swap it is not an option infortunately. In order to keep the car legal it’s engine number must be retained, if I do a swap the ne engine must be a TVR engine. It can be drilled and stroked to 8 litre, it doesn’t matter but if the engine number is not one from the chimaera variants it is impossible to make it legalized.
This means that I must use a TVR block with 4.6 internals or a 450/500 engine.
The RR swap it is not an option infortunately. In order to keep the car legal it’s engine number must be retained, if I do a swap the ne engine must be a TVR engine. It can be drilled and stroked to 8 litre, it doesn’t matter but if the engine number is not one from the chimaera variants it is impossible to make it legalized.
This means that I must use a TVR block with 4.6 internals or a 450/500 engine.
When it comes to a budget I think most people will agree the proven Rule of thumb is it’s going to cost you £80-£100 per hp (Maybe a little less in Hungary?
You will also need to factor in with any engine mods the cost to upgrade your ECU either with an aftermarket one or use the existing 14CUX and rewrite the code. (Cheapest option) you can do this yourself or use an expert like Joolz in the UK who is very reasonable.
IMO unless you can do the engine works yourself I think you will be hard pushed to get another reliable 50hp on a budget of £1500-£2500. You may have to revise your budget.
There is a currently a 5.0 engine on eBay with ecu for just under £5000 but you could be lucky and get another TVR variant for less.
You will also need to factor in with any engine mods the cost to upgrade your ECU either with an aftermarket one or use the existing 14CUX and rewrite the code. (Cheapest option) you can do this yourself or use an expert like Joolz in the UK who is very reasonable.
IMO unless you can do the engine works yourself I think you will be hard pushed to get another reliable 50hp on a budget of £1500-£2500. You may have to revise your budget.
There is a currently a 5.0 engine on eBay with ecu for just under £5000 but you could be lucky and get another TVR variant for less.
Assuming the engine and cam are in good condition and If I was working to a budget of under £3000 I would install stage 3 heads (£1500) and a port matched (£200) manifold, allow £500 to install and another £350 to put on a rolling road and remap. That should give you around 30hp. If budget and regulations allow put a Clive F collector (£400)on for another 10hp which will make it sound like 50 extra hp.
ITVRI said:
Assuming the engine and cam are in good condition and If I was working to a budget of under £3000 I would install stage 3 heads (£1500) and a port matched (£200) manifold, allow £500 to install and another £350 to put on a rolling road and remap. That should give you around 30hp.
Something lile this was my original plan tbh. I wanted to have the car dyno’d to find out if the cam was worn. If it turns out to be worn I would’ve bought a Phantom head and an MC1 cam from V8D. What makes this route apealing to me is that I would have a stronger and partly overhauled engine as a result.
If I have this done in Austria....it will be costly for sure. In Hungary I can have it done cheap what is very risky. Or I find a Rover specialist - as it was advised above - who knows the rv8. This is the hard part but I will check.
It is my bad luck that Verpoorten Technik stopped doing these kind of jobs recently. They are based in Hungay and they are real specialists.
https://m.facebook.com/vtautomotive/?locale2=hu_HU
Maybe I can find their mechanik directly but it’s not the same, there’s no company behind, no warranty etc.
Belle427 said:
May be worth dropping these guys an email, may be a deal to be had somewhere if you can ship your engine to them.They are not the easiest or quickest to deal with though.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/i...
Do you know you can turn a 4.0 into a 4.6 just by using the crankshaft, con rods and pistons from the 4.6 engine?
That’s what I planned to do last year but got let down on the parts, may not interest you if you have no decent mechanics around.
Only if its a X bolted 4.0 block and not the interim-Serp small journal block http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/i...
Do you know you can turn a 4.0 into a 4.6 just by using the crankshaft, con rods and pistons from the 4.6 engine?
That’s what I planned to do last year but got let down on the parts, may not interest you if you have no decent mechanics around.
sadly the most common version of 4.0 block in the Chimaera 400 models Supercharged5 said:
I wanted to have the car dyno’d to find out if the cam was worn.
Yes that’s a good start. By giving it a quick run on the dyno it may tell you more about the condition of the engine and give you a good idea of how much you have gained whatever you decide and wherever you end up. A standard healthy 4.0 should be somewhere around 210 at the flywheel.
You sound like your on the right track.
Zener said:
Belle427 said:
May be worth dropping these guys an email, may be a deal to be had somewhere if you can ship your engine to them.They are not the easiest or quickest to deal with though.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/i...
Do you know you can turn a 4.0 into a 4.6 just by using the crankshaft, con rods and pistons from the 4.6 engine?
That’s what I planned to do last year but got let down on the parts, may not interest you if you have no decent mechanics around.
Only if its a X bolted 4.0 block and not the interim-Serp small journal block http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/i...
Do you know you can turn a 4.0 into a 4.6 just by using the crankshaft, con rods and pistons from the 4.6 engine?
That’s what I planned to do last year but got let down on the parts, may not interest you if you have no decent mechanics around.
sadly the most common version of 4.0 block in the Chimaera 400 models Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff