V8V vs 4200 GT: reliabilty, running costs, upgrades etc?

[SPKR]

I've been lusting after one or another for years now. Finally thinking of doing it. I go back and forth on which one I want. So I thought I would start the decision process based on the above questions. V8 Vantage vs 4200 GT: Reliability, running costs, upgrades available etc?

I know the 4200 Cambio Corsa eats clutch every 15k miles and they are expensive to replace. But I'm going for the stick.

Thanks.

[ZX10R NIN]

With the cheapest V8V's starting at around 20k I'd say take a look at the Gransport, clutch wear varies on the cars usage if you're based in central London then it can be as low as 15k but if they're used on more open roads then they'll be cars with 70k on their original clutches.

If it has to be a choice out of the 4200 & V8V then for me the Aston edges it as overall it's the better car but I'd take the Gransport over both.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I'd say test drive them as it's at that point you'll know which one you'll be buying no matter whats written here, all will have the ability to drain your wallet so it'll come down to which one you actually want.

[SPKR]

Thanks. Like I said the clutch problem is with the paddles version only. I would buy a stick, 3 pedal car. So clutch wear is the same as any similar car. No problems there.

In what way is the Vantage a better car in your opinion?

Interesting that you choose the Gransport over both though, as it's basically the same car as the Coupe (4200 GT). Unless the body kit makes all the difference for you? if so, you can add that to a non Gransport version too. And as far the the upgrades go, the only real difference besides the bodykit is a few extra bhp, which you can surely get back or even more with a tuning. So what you base your decision of preferring the Gransport over both on? I would be curious to know.


As far as aftermarket support I would think the Vantage surely has the edge?

The interior of the Maserati is a much nicer place to be. The Vantage in comparison feels mundane and boring. But then again it's hard to compare Italian cars with anything else. Even Alfa interiors feel more special than most Aston and especially Jaguars. Build quality at least in the interior doesn't seem to be much different. Both are a bit dodgy there.

Sound I guess it's a toss as it will depend on the exhaust chosen and can be tuned to taste. Both sound great. But once you open the bonnet, again the Maserati trumps the Vantage. What a beautiful engine.

Engine pedigree, again the Maserati wins as Ferrari derived trumps Ford derived any day. Regardless of what the movie Ford vs Ferrari tries to say.

I don't care for appreciation or classic status, but there the Vantage might have an edge because of Bond. But then again the Vantage is the 3 series of the Astons. "Billions" made and sold, cheapest of the mill and everybody has one. The Maserati production numbers is in the 6000s for the coupe. 2000s for the Gransport. The V8 Vantage I heard is in the 15000-20000s. But Aston probably will still have an edge here. Although I don't care for that. I will buy it and drive it anyway, without any concerns for mileage.

[griffter]

The Gransport’s a lot more than just a body kit. IIRC it’s engine, transmission (shift speed) suspension and interior changes too. Read some period road test reviews to appreciate the more-than-some-of-parts benefits.
Afraid I’ve never driven one. Looked at a few and still really want one but I’ve ended up with a Porsche both times I came close to a Gransport.
They spiked about 24 months ago and are now as cheap as they’ve ever been.

[SPKR]

griffter said:

The Gransport’s a lot more than just a body kit. IIRC it’s engine, transmission (shift speed) suspension and interior changes too. Read some period road test reviews to appreciate the more-than-some-of-parts benefits.
Afraid I’ve never driven one. Looked at a few and still really want one but I’ve ended up with a Porsche both times I came close to a Gransport.
They spiked about 24 months ago and are now as cheap as they’ve ever been.

Well, only if compared to older cambio corsas. Sure, there are upgrades. But the Gransport was not a model. It was a trim. You could still buy the GT alongside the Gransport till the end. And a GT of the same year as the Gransport has the same upgrades, apart from the body kit and a few extra bhp.

And if it's a manual GT, then none of the transmission upgrades count anyway. And even with the transmission upgrades, the Gransport shifts too slow for my tastes. Even in sport mode. It's an early paddle design and it shows its age. Again, not a problem with the manual GT.

[andy43]

I keep looking at the newer post 2007 4.2/4.7 Gran Turismos and early Vantages. No idea how to pay for one just yet but I keep looking...

Vantage - worth watching all the Bamford Rose vids on youtube - twin plate clutch upgrade, 4.3 vs 4.7 etc, lots of info there. The cars seem bulletproof apart from the clutches being ridiculously expensive so finding one that's just had it done would be a plus. They upgraded to a glass key and slightly better dashboard - think it was 2008/9 - worth trying for? Stretching to a 4.7 if possible would help on resale - early 4.3 do seem to stick around and I'd agree the manual is The One. Sportshifts seem to hang around for sale for longer. An early 4.3 manual coupe for about 25k is a heck of a lot of car.

GT - I'm aiming at the later Gran Turismos so possibly not relevant but the variable valve timing on engines up to around 2010 can cause problems as they didn't have non-return valves in the oil feeds - that's a 3k fix to modify the cam caps and replace and retime the variators. Suspension can take a pounding meaning new bush sets at £300/side plus labour. Subframes are rusting now - thousands to replace - I'm guessing 'your shape' GT will be the same. I'm near Autoshield - one of the top specialists in the country - and the owner Marios suggested a Gran Sport over an early Gran Turismo based on reliability, depreciation/value etc. They do seem sought after - but if you need a manual.... Sport-Maserati forum is very good.

Overall the Vantage seems the least painful to own but there's something about Maseratis - and you have to own at least one italian car at some point, right? I will follow this thread with interest!

[anonymous-user]

As an owner of a 3 pedal Maserati 4200 I can thoroughly recommend one if my own experience is anything to go by.
Few things to look out for, make sure disc and pads are good, suspension is fine and check for any damp on carpets and no smell of antifreeze inside the cabin as the might be a sign of leaking heater matrix (cheap part but long job to change).
The clutch issue is a big win imho, last a lot longer, no need for fancy diagnostic equipment to set it up unlike a cambiocorsa if ever you did need to change it. With my car I had a noisy release bearing which I had changed at 70k mileage, the clutch was only half worn.
There were only just over a 1000 Maserati 4200 GT 3 pedal cars made so a rare car, Maserati with a Ferrari engine with a manual gearbox, the last Maserati available with a manual gearbox.
One gripe is the price of parts for a car that's been out of production for nearly 15 years (£350 for clutch release bearing) so make sure you buy one that's good to go, change the oil regularly and the Ferrari engine can be bullet proof.

[SPKR]

andy43 said:

I keep looking at the newer post 2007 4.2/4.7 Gran Turismos and early Vantages. No idea how to pay for one just yet but I keep looking...

Vantage - worth watching all the Bamford Rose vids on youtube - twin plate clutch upgrade, 4.3 vs 4.7 etc, lots of info there. The cars seem bulletproof apart from the clutches being ridiculously expensive so finding one that's just had it done would be a plus. They upgraded to a glass key and slightly better dashboard - think it was 2008/9 - worth trying for? Stretching to a 4.7 if possible would help on resale - early 4.3 do seem to stick around and I'd agree the manual is The One. Sportshifts seem to hang around for sale for longer. An early 4.3 manual coupe for about 25k is a heck of a lot of car.

GT - I'm aiming at the later Gran Turismos so possibly not relevant but the variable valve timing on engines up to around 2010 can cause problems as they didn't have non-return valves in the oil feeds - that's a 3k fix to modify the cam caps and replace and retime the variators. Suspension can take a pounding meaning new bush sets at £300/side plus labour. Subframes are rusting now - thousands to replace - I'm guessing 'your shape' GT will be the same. I'm near Autoshield - one of the top specialists in the country - and the owner Marios suggested a Gran Sport over an early Gran Turismo based on reliability, depreciation/value etc. They do seem sought after - but if you need a manual.... Sport-Maserati forum is very good.

Overall the Vantage seems the least painful to own but there's something about Maseratis - and you have to own at least one italian car at some point, right? I will follow this thread with interest!

Well, I have zero interest in the Granturismo.

First, they are all auto only. I need a 3 pedal manual.

Second, I never really liked the look of them. Too long. Wheelbase is longer than some family saloons. They look just too large. I have the same problem with the Jag XK. Very long and large cars.

Third the interior is much nicer in the 3200/4200/Gransport.

So zero interest in a Granturismo.

I also was of the mindset that the Vantage would be more reliable. But the info that I'm finding is going against that. Also it seems Astons parts are more expensive. So the combination of same reliability as the Maserati, plus more expensive parts plus more expensive to buy, seems like the Maserati is the smarter choice. Style I also prefer the Maserati on most days and the interior I prefer the Maserati any day.

So it will boil down to driving. I never driven a manual 4200 GT. Only a cambicorsa and a Gransport. They are both too slow shifting for me. I'm thinking the manual will change a lot in the driving experience. But I loved every minute in that interior and every second of the engine sound.

[SPKR]

Raygun said:

As an owner of a 3 pedal Maserati 4200 I can thoroughly recommend one if my own experience is anything to go by.
Few things to look out for, make sure disc and pads are good, suspension is fine and check for any damp on carpets and no smell of antifreeze inside the cabin as the might be a sign of leaking heater matrix (cheap part but long job to change).
The clutch issue is a big win imho, last a lot longer, no need for fancy diagnostic equipment to set it up unlike a cambiocorsa if ever you did need to change it. With my car I had a noisy release bearing which I had changed at 70k mileage, the clutch was only half worn.
There were only just over a 1000 Maserati 4200 GT 3 pedal cars made so a rare car, Maserati with a Ferrari engine with a manual gearbox, the last Maserati available with a manual gearbox.
One gripe is the price of parts for a car that's been out of production for nearly 15 years (£350 for clutch release bearing) so make sure you buy one that's good to go, change the oil regularly and the Ferrari engine can be bullet proof.

Thanks for the feedback. How is the gearbox compared to the usual suspects, like Cayman, M3, Z4M, F-type V6 manual, etc? Have you driven any of those?

I was expecting parts would be expensive. But at least are they all still available? Or has anything become unavailable already?

At least it seems Aston parts are still more expensive. Unless the ones which are Ford parts and you can use them as replacements. I heard of a few of these.

[davek_964]

Vantage parts can be expensive - but over 4 years I found mine pretty reliable.

If you haven't seen it already, you might find my ownership thread useful:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[ZX10R NIN]

The Gtansports have a different suspension set up either that or the 4200's I've driven have had tired suspension besides that it sounds like you really wnt the GT so go for it buy the one you want upgrades wise a Larini system is a nice mod.

[SPKR]

ZX10R NIN said:

The Gtansports have a different suspension set up either that or the 4200's I've driven have had tired suspension besides that it sounds like you really wnt the GT so go for it buy the one you want upgrades wise a Larini system is a nice mod.

Was it one of the latest ones (2006-2007) with skyhook? So it should be the same.

I would still like to pick your brains as to why you think the Vantage is a better car than the 4200 GT and why you prefer the Gransport over both.

[ZX10R NIN]

The reason I'd choose the Vantage is because overall the running costs would be lower because the Vantage despite some of the parts costs they tend to use less of them & if you cross reference some of the part numbers you can cut the costs further.

The Gransports for me have always felt more taught & the extra BHP along with the gearbox make them feel a bit more special than the 4200 & that specialness then would make them worth the extra in running costs over the other two imo.

[SPKR]

davek_964 said:

Vantage parts can be expensive - but over 4 years I found mine pretty reliable.

If you haven't seen it already, you might find my ownership thread useful:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Thanks. I will check it out.

[SPKR]

ZX10R NIN said:

The reason I'd choose the Vantage is because overall the running costs would be lower because the Vantage despite some of the parts costs they tend to use less of them & if you cross reference some of the part numbers you can cut the costs further.

This is what I had in mind. But researching about it, I don't get the impression the Vantage "uses less of them". When you talk about cross reference numbers you mean using Ford numbered parts, which are cheaper? I read something about that as well.

ZX10R NIN said:

The Gransports for me have always felt more taught & the extra BHP along with the gearbox make them feel a bit more special than the 4200 & that specialness then would make them worth the extra in running costs over the other two imo.

The extra BHP is just 10bhp. Hardly any difference and easily attainable in the non Gransport version with a tune.

The gearbox difference only counts for the cambiocorsa. The Gransport had updated software etc. But we are not talking about the paddles version here. Like I said I would go for a stick shift manual. So the gearbox difference doesn't apply here.

In reality, if the cars have the same options, there is basically no difference between a Gransport and a 2006-2007 GT manual, apart from 10bhp and the bodykit.

[anonymous-user]

SPKR said:

Thanks for the feedback. How is the gearbox compared to the usual suspects, like Cayman, M3, Z4M, F-type V6 manual, etc? Have you driven any of those?

I was expecting parts would be expensive. But at least are they all still available? Or has anything become unavailable already?

At least it seems Aston parts are still more expensive. Unless the ones which are Ford parts and you can use them as replacements. I heard of a few of these.

I haven't driven any of the cars you mentioned but the gearbox in the Maserati I would class as normal, nothing special although some Americans have fine tuned the cables and got good results. It doesn't help that I've got a little Ford Puma to run about in which has one of the best gearbox's around imho so any comparisons are liable to fall short.
There are some parts which offer a cheaper alternative which always helps. I tend to use Eurospares in Halstead who I find the cheapest in most cases.A certain dealer in Surrey(famous horse race area) was breaking a 4200 recently and when I got a price for one item I enquired about it was only a tenner less than a genuine brand new part from Eurospares, because the market has dropped on the 4200, the cambiocorsa especially there are people who see breaking a car as a much more lucrative way to go, fair play to them but when they start taking the piss with their over inflated prices I give them a wide berth.

[SPKR]

Raygun said:

I haven't driven any of the cars you mentioned but the gearbox in the Maserati I would class as normal, nothing special although some Americans have fine tuned the cables and got good results. It doesn't help that I've got a little Ford Puma to run about in which has one of the best gearbox's around imho so any comparisons are liable to fall short.
There are some parts which offer a cheaper alternative which always helps. I tend to use Eurospares in Halstead who I find the cheapest in most cases.A certain dealer in Surrey(famous horse race area) was breaking a 4200 recently and when I got a price for one item I enquired about it was only a tenner less than a genuine brand new part from Eurospares, because the market has dropped on the 4200, the cambiocorsa especially there are people who see breaking a car as a much more lucrative way to go, fair play to them but when they start taking the piss with their over inflated prices I give them a wide berth.

Yes, this is an unfortunate effect of depreciation. But honestly for those who like the car, it's not really a bad thing in the long run. It will mean more available parts second hand in the long run. And these parts will only get cheaper with more offer than demand. And it will make exiting cars still registered and driving even more rare, which in the future will make them appreciate in price as a classic even more.

Because there is just no way these cars won't become expensive classic in the future. Took a while but Bora and Merak are appreciating every year to the point they have crossed 100K prices in Europe for example. And they won't stop. Check prices on a Ghibli I and Khamsin.

In the case of the 3200 GT, it's the last sport Maserati with the old Maserati engine. In the case of the 4200 GT it's the last sport Maserati ever available with a manual gearbox. And a NA V8 at that, and a Ferrari derived V8 at that. And RWD! Both wrapped around in a gorgeous timeless beautiful Italian design. Surefire classic written all over it.

[anonymous-user]

I’ve had my Vantage for 3 years, other than a leaky AC compressor it’s only needed servicing / brakes.

Mine is a manual 4.3 2008, paid £42k probably worth £31-35, few upgrades, etc.

Sense of occasion every time I use it

Just coming up to 40k, I’ve budgeted £2.5 for a clutch and lightened flywheel at AML performance in Macclesfield.

I’d say an average £2.5k pa to run, excluding fuel / insurance and depreciation.

Mine is immaculate (mechanically) and used in terms of paint, probably 8/10.

[LayZ]

Disclosure: I have a 2005 GranSport.

Now is a good time to buy, values are way way down, on both 4200 and GS. I don't think clutches are 15k bad, mine has at two and is on 80k miles. On a GS in sport it shifts fast and hard. Not tried a 4200 but I believe they are a lot slower. It is terrible in town, just frustrating, especially as you know every slurred shift is costing you in clutch life.

I know of a 33k mile GS, good history, good colour, that went for 17.5k at an auction. Would have been 10k more not long ago.

I believe the manual 4200 has some expensive and rare parts, but yeah, there are a lot of upsides. One thing that concerns me about long-term ownership is the reliance on specialists who have the right diagnostic equipment to do cambiocorsa work. Seems to be some hope there though,

SPKR said:

The extra BHP is just 10bhp. Hardly any difference and easily attainable in the non Gransport version with a tune.

The gearbox difference only counts for the cambiocorsa. The Gransport had updated software etc. But we are not talking about the paddles version here. Like I said I would go for a stick shift manual. So the gearbox difference doesn't apply here.

In reality, if the cars have the same options, there is basically no difference between a Gransport and a 2006-2007 GT manual, apart from 10bhp and the bodykit.

Bodykit and engine, yes, not much difference. The interior is totally different, I think the GS seats are a lot better for sporty driving. Carbon fibre steering wheel that looks and feels awesome. The old nav unit in a 4200 is horribly dated and update options are basically non-existent. Standard single DIN on a GS so you can put something modern in. The skyhook is also setup differently for the GS. That said my springs and dampers were totally shagged so have replaced them all with KW coilovers.

Edited by LayZ on Thursday 2nd January 13:35

Edited by LayZ on Thursday 2nd January 13:36