996 Hot Rod v 996 GT3

[Desert Dragon]

£79,995 for the CSR hot rod and £59,995 for the low miles time warp GT3. The CSR must be a v.special 911 to command more money than 911 royalty. Nice to see 996 commanding top dollar. Someone spent £100k recently on that 996. Bit worrying already selling though.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

“Well you see sir, we have sold numerous full spec CSR cars, that last was up at nearly £80k so you should really think about going for that extra suspension work as there is clearly a market for it should you decide to sell”

[Steve Rance]

I’ll take the yellow one...

[Desert Dragon]

CSR hot rod very similar money to a lovely GT4 with ceramics RPM also have for sale. I think this 996 is RPM take on Singering a 996, Carbon everywhere. Full works CSR treatment as far as you can possibly take the concept money no object.

https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/981-gt4/

[DMC2]

I’d like the yellow GT3, but in that purple colour....

[harrykul]

^^^^ that would be my dream 996.

[roca1976]

I think the CSR will be a tough sell, the Carrera lightweight build was more bespoke if someone is in the market for the ultimate M96 996 (although I can't fathom why you would choose one over a pukka Mez 996), the CSR is largely off the shelf components? I always considered it a rolling show case for the various CSR upgrades rather than a realistic financial option.

[EGTE]

Yep, it will still bore-score, D-chunk, wear camshaft guides and the AOS will probably fail, since none of those faults have been addressed in the engine.

If it had a full Hartech rebuild/3.9 upgrade, it would be worth about £40K to my eyes, as the GT3 has the provenance that the CSR clearly lacks. Looks great, but basically it's a project car and they are never justifiable financially.

[Cheib]

I really don’t understand why you would have one over a GT3 either....and they have four CSR’s for sale at the moment so maybe the owners don’t fall in love with them either.

Funnily enough this popped up on my YouTube feed the other day...

https://youtu.be/w7Wqe8wLtbI

[roca1976]

I can't help thinking the sweet-spot of a hot rodded 996 would be an early model in a catchy colour, like this:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

- £2.5k on the interior (GT3 console delete, Recaro P.P with snazzy tartan or pash centre retrim)

- £2.5k on coil-overs and basic suspension overhaul with geo set up.

- £1.5k OZ Alleggerita or Fuchs replica rims.

- £2k on full service, semi solid engine mounts, low temp thermostat.

With luck you will have a fairly light weight, tactile and personalised 996 for £20k.

[thelostboy]

Would love to see lap times of the CSR vs the GT3, but agree... it's just an aftermarket 996 at the end of the day.

[Slippydiff]

Desert Dragon said:

£79,995 for the CSR hot rod and £59,995 for the low miles time warp GT3. The CSR must be a v.special 911 to command more money than 911 royalty. Nice to see 996 commanding top dollar. Someone spent £100k recently on that 996. Bit worrying already selling though.

I think the SY Mk 1 GT3 is my old car.
Lovely thing.

[Heathrow]

I'm a big fan of the CSR concept, I think you need to drive one of these cars to appreciate the joys and how good a stock 996 can be made to be. There is a CSR register of all the builds online too which is a nice touch. Mine was CSR build number 17 if it's owned by anyone on PH!

It really does compare well with the 996 GT3 in all areas, including the engine. Now I realise I am comparing a vanilla 3.6 Carerra engine against the Mezger here, but hear me out. The combination of LWFW, top end engine rebuild and lighter kervweight really made the CSR fly, and the torque in particular was very impressive, if not quite having the top end fireworks of the Mezger. On the handling side the KW v3s and Wavetrac LSD were excellent. I do a decent chunk of track work for which the GT3 is now better suited but as a road car I still to this day prefer the CSR to the GT3.

The fun with the CSR is that you can bespoke to your tastes and have something which is unique but backed by an indie with a great rep and with knowledgeable people that share the passion.

Realistically if you spend 15k on donor car + 25k (max) on mods you are still 20k less than a GT3 for which you need to pay 60k for a decent one. You pays your money etc.

The purple car was an RPM build of the ultimate Evo spec of the 996 CSR concept so it's had the kitchen sink thrown at it.

[Steve Rance]

I don’t think that you can easily compare these cars to be honest. The GT3 was built to pound around race tracks for hours on end and not break. The 996 being more focused on this point that the 997 which was more of a road biased compromise but still very track capable. Testament to that is that incredibly 20 years on, I am not aware of a 996 or 7 GT3 having engines or gearboxes replaced. Given how much track work many of them have done that is genuinely amazing. Like all race engines they are designed to operate constantly at very high rpm levels and deliver torque and power according. There are therefore little compromises in their engineering for road use - especially the 996. For some that can translate into a driving experience similar to a migraine. To others it is driving nirvana

The CSR is a different animal which - whilst I’m sure being track capable - is not designed for the same level of track activity as the GT3. The engine is a nicely modified stock 996 engine. The GT3 engine is derived from the 956/962 unit and will cost you the thick end of 40k if you wanted to put one in your kit car. I think that the CSR is more of a road biased hot rod which incorporates some nicely judged upgrades. I am sure they are a delight to drive on the road.

It really depends on what you are looking for from your car. Ultimately a CSR can never be a GT3 and vice versa. But £10k spent on a 996 GT3 either sharpening it up for track or softening up for road would probably make more economic sense ( in my opinion. The 996 GT3 will always be the benchmark for the ultimate water cooled analog driving experience. It would take some car to beat that. I haven’t driven one yet but I live in hope!

[roca1976]

There was a GT3 with aerokit removed and a 'charged Mez engine in T911 a while back. Ultimate Q car spec. I would be happy with a set of GT3 buckets and gen 2 GT3 wheels on my vanilla C2, I don't need Mez or a track weapon. The stocker does 95% I need and the GT3 bling would add the last 5%.

[Adrian-9iafn]

Lots of people trying to make a turn on branding and the Singer model. If someone wants a bespoke special then build something you want and accept that it won’t hold the value of a manufacturers low production tested and professionally developed vehicle.

Read the spec of the CSR and it’s a bunch of potentially well chosen bits. I don’t see anything CSR developed with KW suspension, they aren’t Manthey are they ?

The £80k ‘EVO’ is a £40k car, max imo. It’s a 996 with a heap of bits, no comparison to GT3

[Heathrow]

Adrian-9iafn said:

It’s a 996 with a heap of bits, no comparison to GT3

Objectively you are right, but drive them both back-to-back and you might be enlightened. For me it's about the driving experience and what you are seeking to get out of owning and using a car. Having owned both, accepting Steve Rance's comments about the right tool for the right job, I think the CSR is worthy of comparison with a vanilla GT3. Whether it is "better" or not is entirely subjective.

[BertBert]

And subjectively it's got to be £20k better!

[Heathrow]

I agree, although, as I think you know, the £80k car is a red herring. Most of us would be buying a 997.2 GT3 or an Exige 410 at that kind of money!

It makes more sense at <40k which reflects most of the customer cars.

Gratuitous pic of my old steed tacking Luffield.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If this is my car you are referring to I was looking to sell two cars (including the 996) purely to make space for a new project which is getting pretty heavy. I have however decided to keep all the cars and build a larger place to store them all in; nothing whatsoever to do with the merits of the car. My 996 has not been driven for a considerable time now but I have already contacted Manthey for final stage development together, so I expect it to be fully complete in 2020. For me the engineering challenges when taking on a project of this nature is the most important part of the ownership experience. If I get a chance I will get some reputable journos to review the completed car; hopefully with a GT3 alongside, as the difference in the driving in the case of my CLR is a million miles away from what the GT3 offers. I can't comment on the CSR as I haven't driven one.
250kg removed, no PAS, unique suspension set-up... all make comparing with a GT3 about as relevant as comparing with a Cayenne.