E60 and E90 advice
Discussion
Hi everyone
I am currently in the market for a new car around the £5k mark. I like the E90 and E60 cars equally - either would be fine.
In terms of engines to go for, any major issues with them? I know of the timing chain problems on the 2 litre diesels, but there are a lot of people without issues too.
Am I right in thinking a 3 litre diesel will be a much better bet reliability wise? I know they are nicer and smoother, but in honesty I'm not too worried about that.
There's a 2008 525d for sale I may be having a look at.
Any thoughts/advice welcome.
I am currently in the market for a new car around the £5k mark. I like the E90 and E60 cars equally - either would be fine.
In terms of engines to go for, any major issues with them? I know of the timing chain problems on the 2 litre diesels, but there are a lot of people without issues too.
Am I right in thinking a 3 litre diesel will be a much better bet reliability wise? I know they are nicer and smoother, but in honesty I'm not too worried about that.
There's a 2008 525d for sale I may be having a look at.
Any thoughts/advice welcome.
I had a 123d with the N47 engine many years ago and got past 80K miles with no issues, but one of the reasons I sold it was reading the cam-chain horror stories!
Prior to that I had an E46 with the M47 engine and had no problems with that, but then I sold it on 43K miles.
The early E90s and E60s with a 6 cylinder diesel used the M57 engine (basically the M47 with 2 more cylinders) which seems to be able to cope with high mileages so long as you get the swirl-flaps sorted (Google is your friend).
Does it have to be diesel? I had an E91 325i for a year and replaced it earlier this year with an E90 330i - both with the N52 engine. It's a great engine that loves to rev, although in an E60 you'd probably want the 3 litre version.
Or the early E60petrol 6s had the M54 engine which seems to be pretty bullet-proof.
Only wondered because my BMW Indy recommended 6 cylinders and preferably petrol!
Prior to that I had an E46 with the M47 engine and had no problems with that, but then I sold it on 43K miles.
The early E90s and E60s with a 6 cylinder diesel used the M57 engine (basically the M47 with 2 more cylinders) which seems to be able to cope with high mileages so long as you get the swirl-flaps sorted (Google is your friend).
Does it have to be diesel? I had an E91 325i for a year and replaced it earlier this year with an E90 330i - both with the N52 engine. It's a great engine that loves to rev, although in an E60 you'd probably want the 3 litre version.
Or the early E60petrol 6s had the M54 engine which seems to be pretty bullet-proof.
Only wondered because my BMW Indy recommended 6 cylinders and preferably petrol!
I've had a E90 320d for about 5 years now. I went for the older M47 engine to try and avoid the timing chain issues and having a DPF filter. It's serves us well, we've been to Italy a couple of times in it, covered 40k in it now. I liked the idea of a 6 cylinder but the cars mainly used by my mrs to commute so wasn't really needed.
My brother recently bought an E60 520d. I nudged him towards the M47 engine too, although in the 5er it has a DPF fitted. It's been alright so far, more space inside, not the quickest thing ever (well, neither are tbh) but trundles along well enough, suits his needs.
My brother recently bought an E60 520d. I nudged him towards the M47 engine too, although in the 5er it has a DPF fitted. It's been alright so far, more space inside, not the quickest thing ever (well, neither are tbh) but trundles along well enough, suits his needs.
Both the E60 and E90 are relatively reliable on the whole, with some exceptions in the engine department as has been noted by others. The 3 litre diesel is probably the best of all of them in terms of reliability. A lot of people say the N52 is a good engine (and it is) but it isn't as reliable as people think - there are loads of smaller issues with them like water pumps, oil seals, VANOS, starter motors etc.
If I had my time again (my last car was an E61 530i, I've also had an E92 335i) I'd get a 530/535d.
If I had my time again (my last car was an E61 530i, I've also had an E92 335i) I'd get a 530/535d.
Mr Tidy said:
I had a 123d with the N47 engine many years ago and got past 80K miles with no issues, but one of the reasons I sold it was reading the cam-chain horror stories!
This still makes me laugh - the fact that you sold it out of internet-spun paranoia, and that you admit it at any opportunity.Edited by BFleming on Thursday 2nd January 17:58
BFleming said:
Mr Tidy said:
I had a 123d with the N47 engine many years ago and got past 80K miles with no issues, but one of the reasons I sold it was reading the cam-chain horror stories!
This still makes me laugh - the fact that you sold it our of internet-spun paranoia, and that you admit it at any opportunity.I had an E90 320d bought at 70K with FSH, It had an M47 in it, not immune from timing chain issues but generally much less prone to them. it was not a cheap car to run overall.
Turbo went at 106K, Clutch & flywheel at 125K were the two big ones. Heater fan motor at about 80K, seatbelt warning mat in the passenger seat at about 100K. Flexi brake lines, a rear shock, fuel tank breather & drive coupling at about 135K. MOT advisory on a rear arm bushing at 145K
When I replaced it I went to a 1 series with an N13 engine which seems to be less of an issue.
I'd rather have had another 3 series but I wouldn't buy anything with an N43/46/47 in it (on advice from the guys that service my car.
Edited by Wombat3 on Thursday 2nd January 19:12
T1berious said:
We had an E92 330i for 10 years and 160k. FBMWSH and the only thing that went was the alternator at 157k
If you can find a well looked after one, and look after it, they go forever but you can say that of anything to be fair.
N52 or N53 engine - lovely things. A far cry from the 4 bangers which are, well, not!If you can find a well looked after one, and look after it, they go forever but you can say that of anything to be fair.
Wombat3 said:
When I replaced it I went to a 1 series with an N13 engine which seems to be less of an issue.
Ironically my N13-engined F20 is the only car I've ever had to change the timing chain on. That was at 66,000 miles. It cured the excessive oil consumption, and is a lot quieter too.BFleming said:
Wombat3 said:
When I replaced it I went to a 1 series with an N13 engine which seems to be less of an issue.
Ironically my N13-engined F20 is the only car I've ever had to change the timing chain on. That was at 66,000 miles. It cured the excessive oil consumption, and is a lot quieter too.Wombat3 said:
BFleming said:
Wombat3 said:
When I replaced it I went to a 1 series with an N13 engine which seems to be less of an issue.
Ironically my N13-engined F20 is the only car I've ever had to change the timing chain on. That was at 66,000 miles. It cured the excessive oil consumption, and is a lot quieter too.Wombat3 said:
T1berious said:
We had an E92 330i for 10 years and 160k. FBMWSH and the only thing that went was the alternator at 157k
If you can find a well looked after one, and look after it, they go forever but you can say that of anything to be fair.
N52 or N53 engine - lovely things. A far cry from the 4 bangers which are, well, not!If you can find a well looked after one, and look after it, they go forever but you can say that of anything to be fair.
Drove a four banger 2.0d earlier and it was an awful thing. Couldn't wait to get out. That tractor shake when the engine starts up. The vibration. And worst of all the shove of torque then a big fat nothing. Dull.
BFleming said:
Mr Tidy said:
I had a 123d with the N47 engine many years ago and got past 80K miles with no issues, but one of the reasons I sold it was reading the cam-chain horror stories!
This still makes me laugh - the fact that you sold it out of internet-spun paranoia, and that you admit it at any opportunity.Edited by BFleming on Thursday 2nd January 17:58
Plus I no longer needed a diesel as I wasn't doing any business mileage, or enough miles to make a diesel a sensible option.
And I had fancied a Z4 Coupe for a while, which is when I discovered the wonderful N52 engine.
I have had a few of these.
For me I would personally avoid the N47 2 litre diesel. It is just not refined enough for the MPG you get, drive like miss daisy and you will see good figures, but drive it normally and the MPG is only slightly better than the N57 30d from experience.
I found the best E60, E61 in my case, was the LCI 530d in SE spec. That is such a nice car to drive and I would happily have another one of those again.
I bought myself another 330i Sport Touring last week, nice enough thing, but the reality of it for me now I have been in it a week is, my mapped B47 520d F11 is quicker, far more comfy and suits me more than the E91.
Don't get me wrong, I love the petrol straight 6 NA engines, love them, but I think the E91 just feels a bit too small while not being as checkable as I remember.
The seats don't go low enough, the cabin feels a bit cramped for the size of the car.
I need to decide what I am going to do with it, either keep it or sell it on.
It is also on run flats, I always swapped them out when I had them before, maybe that is ruining it. Problem is, when these are now £4-5k cars, putting on £500 worth of tyres starts to become an expensive test and money I won't recover.
The SE E60 facelift is a completely different car from the E90, it is such a jump in quality, and in many ways, is imho a better, more refined car than the F11 as well.
530d SE LCI would be my recommendation.
For me I would personally avoid the N47 2 litre diesel. It is just not refined enough for the MPG you get, drive like miss daisy and you will see good figures, but drive it normally and the MPG is only slightly better than the N57 30d from experience.
I found the best E60, E61 in my case, was the LCI 530d in SE spec. That is such a nice car to drive and I would happily have another one of those again.
I bought myself another 330i Sport Touring last week, nice enough thing, but the reality of it for me now I have been in it a week is, my mapped B47 520d F11 is quicker, far more comfy and suits me more than the E91.
Don't get me wrong, I love the petrol straight 6 NA engines, love them, but I think the E91 just feels a bit too small while not being as checkable as I remember.
The seats don't go low enough, the cabin feels a bit cramped for the size of the car.
I need to decide what I am going to do with it, either keep it or sell it on.
It is also on run flats, I always swapped them out when I had them before, maybe that is ruining it. Problem is, when these are now £4-5k cars, putting on £500 worth of tyres starts to become an expensive test and money I won't recover.
The SE E60 facelift is a completely different car from the E90, it is such a jump in quality, and in many ways, is imho a better, more refined car than the F11 as well.
530d SE LCI would be my recommendation.
gizlaroc said:
The seats don't go low enough, the cabin feels a bit cramped for the size of the car.
Agreed - this was more-or-less the only reason I sold my E90 LCI. Too small as a family car as there wasn't enough headroom for teenagers in the back. The F11 is superb in this respect, and top trunps the E90 in almost every respect. I only struggle with finding a space big enough for the F11 when parking on streets. It's long!Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff