Law regarding fire alarm tests in blocks of flats
Discussion
Long story short, I live in a six storey concrete and brick built block of flats. There's a central fire alarm system with detectors and sounders in each flat.
For years this was maintained by a fire alarm company who would visit and do a test on all the sensors in the flats every six months.
The company has changed, and the new one see fit to do a siren test every single week, at 8am. Tough s
t if you're a shift worker, or just having a lie in.
They claim it's the law. All I can find is a British Standard which suggests it's good practice to test them weekly, but I've not found the full text to find out if they apply different standards in residential vs commercial buildings.
I've got lots of friends who have lived in similar flats and I've never heard that setting the fire alarms off on a weekly basis is a thing.
Anyone familiar with the legislation to confirm one way or another?
(Yes I know it's possibly technically safer to test them weekly, but I honestly don't care, the building is solid concrete and the stairwell is completely separated from the flats by two fire doors, with each set of doors only serving two flats. It seems to be as safe enough that a monthly test would be sufficient if we have to have them at all)
For years this was maintained by a fire alarm company who would visit and do a test on all the sensors in the flats every six months.
The company has changed, and the new one see fit to do a siren test every single week, at 8am. Tough s
t if you're a shift worker, or just having a lie in.They claim it's the law. All I can find is a British Standard which suggests it's good practice to test them weekly, but I've not found the full text to find out if they apply different standards in residential vs commercial buildings.
I've got lots of friends who have lived in similar flats and I've never heard that setting the fire alarms off on a weekly basis is a thing.
Anyone familiar with the legislation to confirm one way or another?
(Yes I know it's possibly technically safer to test them weekly, but I honestly don't care, the building is solid concrete and the stairwell is completely separated from the flats by two fire doors, with each set of doors only serving two flats. It seems to be as safe enough that a monthly test would be sufficient if we have to have them at all)
Partner had a flat in a large low-rise block (5 story, converted city centre warehouse) with a full wired in system as you describe.
As far as I know, including visiting for 2 years and living there 3 months, there was no routine weekly/monthly siren tests. The sirens are by far the most reliable bit as far as I can tell!
Daniel
As far as I know, including visiting for 2 years and living there 3 months, there was no routine weekly/monthly siren tests. The sirens are by far the most reliable bit as far as I can tell!
Daniel
BS5839 and the fire regulation reform order state that a fire alarm must have a weekly manual call point test to verify that audible sounders and visuals operate and are in good working condition, the records of which should be recorded in the onsite log book.
This test should be carried out at the same time each week and last at least 30 seconds.
So yes it’s the law. Maybe contact the management company and ask them to do it at 12:00 instead?
In addition all smoke, heat, beam, etc devices and all outputs should be tested once a year
Flats are a weird one, a purpose built new block may not require sounders, as the purpose of the system is to open smoke vents, and alert the fire service and key holders.
Other flats that have been converted may have sounders, found either in the flats or corridors depending on risk assessment.
This test should be carried out at the same time each week and last at least 30 seconds.
So yes it’s the law. Maybe contact the management company and ask them to do it at 12:00 instead?
In addition all smoke, heat, beam, etc devices and all outputs should be tested once a year
Flats are a weird one, a purpose built new block may not require sounders, as the purpose of the system is to open smoke vents, and alert the fire service and key holders.
Other flats that have been converted may have sounders, found either in the flats or corridors depending on risk assessment.
Thanks guys, I've tried to locate the key bits of BS5839 but not had any luck, I'm unclear on whether that applies equally to residential buildings as much as commercial. Also unclear on whether BS5839 is strictly a law, or whether it's guidance.
It seems odd that we haven't had them tested for at least the last 5 years, then suddenly they need to be sounded every week. fking annoying too.
I shall get back onto the management company and ask to see the legislation again.
Definitely will be asking for a more reasonable time as well, although how you find a time that suits 50 different households I don't know. Lunchtime would seem good as most of us are out at work then, but a bit of a tt if you're a shift worker.
It seems odd that we haven't had them tested for at least the last 5 years, then suddenly they need to be sounded every week. f
king annoying too.I shall get back onto the management company and ask to see the legislation again.
Definitely will be asking for a more reasonable time as well, although how you find a time that suits 50 different households I don't know. Lunchtime would seem good as most of us are out at work then, but a bit of a t
t if you're a shift worker.Alucidnation said:
I think this is the first i have heard of someone complaining about a fairly crucial life saving test carried out.
Everyone else normally complains that they are not being done.
I wouldn't give a stuff if they don't test the sirens once a week. The chances of both of them failing in my flat is tiny, and even if they did, I can't imagine any fire scenario in this building that would put me in genuine danger.Everyone else normally complains that they are not being done.
I'm only concerned that the proper system tests on sensors etc are done every six months.
I don't think I know anyone who tests their home smoke alarm weekly (even though we should), and I definitely don't know anyone who'd be happy for a stranger to decide to test the sirens in their bedroom once a week when they're still in bed!
If anything the sounders are the most important part of a system, smoke detectors can fail, but smoke travels and would eventually set off another
If a sounder failed, another might not be near by, and by the time you heard it your escape route could be cut off, especially if you’re in a block of flats with just one stairwell.
grenfel tower for example.
Most new fire alarm systems are addressable, and the sounders are monitored for fault, so if one did fail, it would be flagged up on the panel.
Older systems each sounder wasn’t monitored so if they aren’t tested they can fail without flagging a fault.
A block of flats is a commercial premises. Your flat isn’t, but the building is, That’s why you need insurance etc
BS5839 is a recommendation standard which we work to, it says may and should, rarely must, but good luck standing up in court when you’ve not done what it says and have to justify why something went wrong because you ignored the advice
If a sounder failed, another might not be near by, and by the time you heard it your escape route could be cut off, especially if you’re in a block of flats with just one stairwell.
grenfel tower for example.
Most new fire alarm systems are addressable, and the sounders are monitored for fault, so if one did fail, it would be flagged up on the panel.
Older systems each sounder wasn’t monitored so if they aren’t tested they can fail without flagging a fault.
A block of flats is a commercial premises. Your flat isn’t, but the building is, That’s why you need insurance etc
BS5839 is a recommendation standard which we work to, it says may and should, rarely must, but good luck standing up in court when you’ve not done what it says and have to justify why something went wrong because you ignored the advice
Nickbrapp said:
If anything the sounders are the most important part of a system, smoke detectors can fail, but smoke travels and would eventually set off another
If a sounder failed, another might not be near by, and by the time you heard it your escape route could be cut off, especially if you’re in a block of flats with just one stairwell.
grenfel tower for example.
Most new fire alarm systems are addressable, and the sounders are monitored for fault, so if one did fail, it would be flagged up on the panel.
Older systems each sounder wasn’t monitored so if they aren’t tested they can fail without flagging a fault.
A block of flats is a commercial premises. Your flat isn’t, but the building is, That’s why you need insurance etc
BS5839 is a recommendation standard which we work to, it says may and should, rarely must, but good luck standing up in court when you’ve not done what it says and have to justify why something went wrong because you ignored the advice
Thank you that's very useful. The last bit specifically states that the guidance only applies to the shared areas of our flats, and specifically does not apply to individual flats.If a sounder failed, another might not be near by, and by the time you heard it your escape route could be cut off, especially if you’re in a block of flats with just one stairwell.
grenfel tower for example.
Most new fire alarm systems are addressable, and the sounders are monitored for fault, so if one did fail, it would be flagged up on the panel.
Older systems each sounder wasn’t monitored so if they aren’t tested they can fail without flagging a fault.
A block of flats is a commercial premises. Your flat isn’t, but the building is, That’s why you need insurance etc
BS5839 is a recommendation standard which we work to, it says may and should, rarely must, but good luck standing up in court when you’ve not done what it says and have to justify why something went wrong because you ignored the advice
I suppose it's awkward that the sounders are inside our bedrooms (one per bedroom in the flat) and in the common hallways, so impossible to set one off without the other.
I think I'm still going to call them up and make a nuisance of myself, the other residents aren't exactly thrilled with the situation either. We've never had them tested on a weekly basis before until the fire alarm company was changed, so I suspect this is someone being particularly anal in their interpretation of the guidance.
Of course, had they engaged with us before implementing this change, and possibly asked for some residents opinions about what time of day we'd like a huge f
king klaxon to go off above our beds then perhaps this situation could have been avoided...You would like to think that the flats and communal spaces where on different sounder circuits, no?
As said, consultation could have been everything here.
With shared use there is no good time, if you're working shift work, or nights on-call and get home shattered at 9am having an alarm go off at 11 would be hell, even if you knew in advance.
Sigh
As said, consultation could have been everything here.
With shared use there is no good time, if you're working shift work, or nights on-call and get home shattered at 9am having an alarm go off at 11 would be hell, even if you knew in advance.
Sigh
dhutch said:
You would like to think that the flats and communal spaces where on different sounder circuits, no?
As said, consultation could have been everything here.
With shared use there is no good time, if you're working shift work, or nights on-call and get home shattered at 9am having an alarm go off at 11 would be hell, even if you knew in advance.
Sigh
No. Usually a loop will cover a floor or 3 floors etc, sounder circuits will do the same.As said, consultation could have been everything here.
With shared use there is no good time, if you're working shift work, or nights on-call and get home shattered at 9am having an alarm go off at 11 would be hell, even if you knew in advance.
Sigh
I'm surprised we even have sounders in the flats, it seems that they aren't mandatory as when Grenfell went up the alarms were (allegedly) only sounding in hallways.
To be honest I'm quite blase about my block because I can only think of one fire scenario where I'd genuinely be in trouble if the place went up, and that's my own flat going up whilst I sleep.
If my direct neighbours went up there'd be moderate risk as they're the only people I share a lobby with. If it was well established then the lack of smoke seals in the front doors would rapidly fill my only egress with smoke, but as I can reach a protected stairwell within 2-3 steps, I think even then I'd be fine.
There's no cladding, and it's all built out of concrete, I think the fire would contain in a single flat for a considerable period of time.
Unless it was a my neighbours or one below mine on fire I don't even think I'd bother evacuating (assuming we're not at war and the fire brigade are actually going to attend). I'm not in a minority either, almost all of the neighbours ignore the alarm unless it goes on for more than a few minutes.
To be honest I'm quite blase about my block because I can only think of one fire scenario where I'd genuinely be in trouble if the place went up, and that's my own flat going up whilst I sleep.
If my direct neighbours went up there'd be moderate risk as they're the only people I share a lobby with. If it was well established then the lack of smoke seals in the front doors would rapidly fill my only egress with smoke, but as I can reach a protected stairwell within 2-3 steps, I think even then I'd be fine.
There's no cladding, and it's all built out of concrete, I think the fire would contain in a single flat for a considerable period of time.
Unless it was a my neighbours or one below mine on fire I don't even think I'd bother evacuating (assuming we're not at war and the fire brigade are actually going to attend). I'm not in a minority either, almost all of the neighbours ignore the alarm unless it goes on for more than a few minutes.
Yes but do not assume that people have done their job properly
There’s a development in Cardiff, 1000 flats, now all 10 years old, NO fire stopping at all in risers, around fire doors etc.
Some company has been paid to do that work, signed it off, it’s been signed off by someone else and yet still it’s not there and no one will face any conciquenxes from it.
I’m not sure what the law regarding sounders is actually in flats as I don’t do that many blocks of flats, the last one I did had a sounder in the hallway but this was because it was a converted office block. Others I’ve done have had nothing and the flats relied on the mains smoke detectors.
I’m afraid if it’s there it’s got to be tested. A bit like a MOT
There’s a development in Cardiff, 1000 flats, now all 10 years old, NO fire stopping at all in risers, around fire doors etc.
Some company has been paid to do that work, signed it off, it’s been signed off by someone else and yet still it’s not there and no one will face any conciquenxes from it.
I’m not sure what the law regarding sounders is actually in flats as I don’t do that many blocks of flats, the last one I did had a sounder in the hallway but this was because it was a converted office block. Others I’ve done have had nothing and the flats relied on the mains smoke detectors.
I’m afraid if it’s there it’s got to be tested. A bit like a MOT
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff