Isle of Wight

[dhutch]

Looks the Isle of Wight is getting new trains over this summer. Tempted to go an see them before they go! They have only been there almost all of my life....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/02/is...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-50...

The British Rail Class 483 electric multiple units were originally built as 1938 tube stock units for London Underground. They were extensively refurbished between 1989 and 1992 by Eastleigh Works, for use on services on the Isle of Wight's Island Line. This was despite having already worked for nearly 50 years on the London Underground. The units replaced the even older and life-expired British Rail Classes 485 and 486 units, which were introduced in 1967, but were originally built as 'Standard' stock units for the London Electric Railway in 1923.

The stock is 81 years old and still in service as of 2020, making it the oldest type in Great Britain to remain in regular service. It is scheduled to be replaced by Class 484s from 2020.


Daniel

[Eric Mc]

Sad to see the old trains go. I remember when they were still running on the Underground.

[Yertis]

Why do these trains have a third rail, but on the underground they also have a fourth rail in the middle of the track?

[lufbramatt]

IIRC there’s several preserved steam locomotives that were built in the 40s and 50s on the IoW steam railway that are younger than the electric stock.

Edited by lufbramatt on Friday 3rd January 16:48

[Eric Mc]

Invincible, the steam loco that used to haul coal from Farnborough Main train station to the RAE is preserved on the IoW.



In her natural habitat -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd2WlJ6Egjk

[aeropilot]

Eric Mc said:

I remember when they were still running on the Underground.

Me too. Looks like they've been modernised a bit though, probably when they were refurbished before going to IOW.
I remember the old red '38 stock running on the Bakerloo Line, with the wooden slat floors, green and wood panelled interiors and dim light bulb lighting. Marvelous nostalgia, even into the 1980's.

[Eric Mc]

They were very clattery - and are still clattery on the Isle of Wight.

[Condi]

Its okay, they are being replaced once again by old (converted) underground trains.

What vivarail are doing is quite good, using what they can of existing stock and making it suitable for main-line services at low cost.

[dhutch]

lufbramatt said:

IIRC there’s several preserved steam locomotives that were built in the 40s and 50s on the IoW steam railway that are younger than the electric stock.

That's quite funny, but as you mention it, i could well believe it!

[ecsrobin]

dhutch said:

lufbramatt said:

IIRC there’s several preserved steam locomotives that were built in the 40s and 50s on the IoW steam railway that are younger than the electric stock.

That's quite funny, but as you mention it, i could well believe it!

That’s been my random pub quiz fact for quite a few years, however I’ve just yet to find a quiz that has it in!

[williamp]

Finally the heritage railway museum will have exhibits older then the normal rolling stock

[dhutch]

Including it seems, the old rolling stock.

[Some Guy]

I remember the old Class 486 units the first few times I visited the island.

[Bert Cheese]

Yertis said:

Why do these trains have a third rail, but on the underground they also have a fourth rail in the middle of the track?

IIRC The underground use the 4th rail for earth return as the rails are not electrically bonded, on the 3 rail system as found on the IoW and SR mainline the rails are bonded and so earth return is made via the 2 running rails the wheels run along.

The units were fairly comprehensively rebuilt at Eastleigh works before going to the island, 4 to 3 rail electricals only being one factor as well as making some attempts to protect the underslung equipment from salt water splashing when out on Ryde Pier.

I shall have to get over there myself before they go to invoke those childhood memories, its getting a bit hit and miss if they run at all these days though...

Edited by Bert Cheese on Saturday 4th January 17:21

[Bert Cheese]

Some Guy said:

I remember the old Class 486 units the first few times I visited the island.

Marvellous, if only I'd used some of my precious 110 film on these rather than plastic dinosaurs at Blackgang Chine...

There was also a rather foreboding looking Hunslet Class 05 shunter usually parked at Sandown for many years, this then went into preservation and was replaced by a pair of Class 03's which my younger self much preferred

[Dogwatch]

Yertis said:

Why do these trains have a third rail, but on the underground they also have a fourth rail in the middle of the track?

When electric underground trains were introduced there was some nervousness about having the return current running through the running rails in steel tunnels. If something went wrong the entire tunnel lining could become the return path for the train current, hence the separate fourth rail to keep the return current from the running rails. It's always the centre rail so the live rail can be kept across the track from platforms and out of the way of anyone falling on the track. With a thoughtfully provided pit for said unfortunate to safely inspect the running gear of the next train along...

I had the doubtful priviledge, as an ordinary passenger, of riding in one of the 1920's stock in the early '60s before they were withdrawn. The traction motors were in a compartment behind the driver (not beneath the floor) and the door into the passenger compartment hadn't been secured so as it swung to and fro you could see the blue flashes from the motors.

[dhutch]

Dogwatch said:

I had the doubtful priviledge, as an ordinary passenger, of riding in one of the 1920's stock in the early '60s before they were withdrawn. The traction motors were in a compartment behind the driver (not beneath the floor) and the door into the passenger compartment hadn't been secured so as it swung to and fro you could see the blue flashes from the motors.

Sounds excellent to me! I saw the photos of the above floor switch gear but didn't appreciate the motor was also above floor. Certainly you can see why they where concerned about the salt spray from the pier on trains designed for the tube.

Makes sense about having concerns about returning current in steel tunnels and perhaps a reasonable pd from rail to tunnel even without a fault, and back then the work in putting in a fourth rail would have just been done, no huge thoughts about the cost of it.
Presumably the underground trains (and other third rail trains) have a pickup both sides, so the rail can change to be on the far side for either station configuration. I see them on the merseyrail trains every morning (inside side of the far platforms train, on the 3rd rail, nice wooden carriers) but have never looks down the platform gap for them on the hanging waiting. Will check next week!

Daniel

[rs1952]

Eric Mc said:

Sad to see the old trains go. I remember when they were still running on the Underground.

And, perhaps sadly, I can remember the Isle of Wight lines before they were electrified in 1967..

[The Li-ion King]

Bert Cheese said:

Yertis said:

Why do these trains have a third rail, but on the underground they also have a fourth rail in the middle of the track?

IIRC The underground use the 4th rail for earth return as the rails are not electrically bonded, on the 3 rail system as found on the IoW and SR mainline the rails are bonded and so earth return is made via the 2 running rails the wheels run along.

The units were fairly comprehensively rebuilt at Eastleigh works before going to the island, 4 to 3 rail electricals only being one factor as well as making some attempts to protect the underslung equipment from salt water splashing when out on Ryde Pier.

I shall have to get over there myself before they go to invoke those childhood memories, its getting a bit hit and miss if they run at all these days though...

Edited by Bert Cheese on Saturday 4th January 17:21

London Overground on parts of the District Line (Gunnersbury-Richmond) and Bakerloo Line (Queen's Park - Harrow & Wealdstone) is a mixture of the two Earth DC Return systems

Hopefully Vivarail give the trains a professional refresh like they did for the diesel-electric Class 230 (former D78 District Line stock).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsVfIGv8sBs

Some of the "new" trains arrive for testing this summer. (These trains are 'just' 41 years old, compared to 81 )

Edited by The Li-ion King on Sunday 5th January 17:19

[Yertis]

Thanks for those answers chaps - a lifelong mystery solved!