Clarifying continuous offence for speeding

[Gooly]

Hi, just a quick one and I'm pretty sure I already know the answer but I just want to clarify. Unfortunately had two NIPs come through yesterday for speeding in the M4 40mph avg speed camera zone - one for 46mph and one for 52mph. I'm guessing I will receive an SAC for the 46mph and an FPN for the 52mph.

Question is, both offences were within 45min of each other, along the same section of road - but one going westbound and the other going eastbound (I did a Heathrow run). Am I right in thinking this isn't covered by the continuous offence rule and I am 100% liable for both offences?

Thanks in advance!

[martinbiz]

Effectively a different road, so not a continuous offence I’m afraid

[mikeveal]

Gooly said:

Hi, just a quick one and I'm pretty sure I already know the answer but I just want to clarify. Unfortunately had two NIPs come through yesterday for speeding in the M4 40mph avg speed camera zone - one for 46mph and one for 52mph. I'm guessing I will receive an SAC for the 46mph and an FPN for the 52mph.

Question is, both offences were within 45min of each other, along the same section of road - but one going westbound and the other going eastbound (I did a Heathrow run). Am I right in thinking this isn't covered by the continuous offence rule and I am 100% liable for both offences?

Thanks in advance!

These are average speed cameras. Try arguing that whilst your speed was correctly measured Eastbound at 46mph and Westbound (over the same road and the same distance) at 52mph, their calculation is wrong.

Your mean average speed was only 3mph Westbound.

[martinbiz]

mikeveal said:

These are average speed cameras. Try arguing that whilst your speed was correctly measured Eastbound at 46mph and Westbound (over the same road and the same distance) at 52mph, their calculation is wrong.

Your mean average speed was only 3mph Westbound.

That really is all irrelevant, 2 totally separate journeys with a stop in the middle

[saladdays]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1320...

[2gins]

This must be the elevated section past Brentford, I can't really help but if so then thanks for confirming that they're operational and are issuing tickets as I use this stretch myself from time to time, although much less now than I used to.
Hope it goes OK for you.

[anonymous-user]

martinbiz said:

mikeveal said:

These are average speed cameras. Try arguing that whilst your speed was correctly measured Eastbound at 46mph and Westbound (over the same road and the same distance) at 52mph, their calculation is wrong.

Your mean average speed was only 3mph Westbound.

That really is all irrelevant, 2 totally separate journeys with a stop in the middle

Is that one of those 'parrot jobs'?

[Gooly]

martinbiz said:

Effectively a different road, so not a continuous offence I’m afraid

Confirms what I thought, thank you for clarifying. Guess I need to take this one on the chin!

mikeveal said:

These are average speed cameras. Try arguing that whilst your speed was correctly measured Eastbound at 46mph and Westbound (over the same road and the same distance) at 52mph, their calculation is wrong.

Your mean average speed was only 3mph Westbound.

I'm not sure I understand your point, are you saying I should argue for one offence of 49mph as a combination of the two?

Edit: parrot for me lol.

saladdays said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1320...

Confirms what I thought, if Mr Loophole can't then it doesn't leave much hope for me

2gins said:

This must be the elevated section past Brentford, I can't really help but if so then thanks for confirming that they're operational and are issuing tickets as I use this stretch myself from time to time, although much less now than I used to.
Hope it goes OK for you.

Thank you, and yes if theres one thing to come out of this it's that I can at least warn others - I've done this stretch many times before at similar speeds and never had anything through so they must have recently lowered the enforcement threshold (or just turned them on).

The exact locations listed are:

Westbound M4 Clayponds Ave MP13/9A to Transport Ave MP15/6(99)A

Eastbound M4 Grand Union Canal MP16/3(70)B to Clayponds Ave (MP13/9B

Annoying, doing anything above 40 didn't really add any value to my life. Always the boring stuff that gets you caught...


Another edit: Turns out I'm one of many, this stretch is the 4th in the top 10 speeding locations within the Met Police jurisdiction.

https://maps.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/foi-media...

Edited by Gooly on Thursday 9th January 13:35

[agtlaw]

Gooly said:

Hi, just a quick one and I'm pretty sure I already know the answer but I just want to clarify. Unfortunately had two NIPs come through yesterday for speeding in the M4 40mph avg speed camera zone - one for 46mph and one for 52mph. I'm guessing I will receive an SAC for the 46mph and an FPN for the 52mph.

Question is, both offences were within 45min of each other, along the same section of road - but one going westbound and the other going eastbound (I did a Heathrow run). Am I right in thinking this isn't covered by the continuous offence rule and I am 100% liable for both offences?

Thanks in advance!

52/40 = SAC or COFP
46/40 = SAC or COFP

See s. 28(4) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

I'm extremely doubtful that a magistrates' court would find that the above-mentioned offences were "committed on the same occasion."

[Jamescrs]

I can't see how you can claim its all one incident when they are opposite directions, looks like your getting hit twice unfortunately

[Chozza]

I'd try arguing that they should look at your yearly average speed over that stretch :-)

Average the 200 trips a year i made on that stretch of M4 . i reckon they owe me a few mph grace

( though i do like the idea of arguing that you weren't speeding even though your average velocity was high )

[Jimmy Recard]

mikeveal said:

These are average speed cameras. Try arguing that whilst your speed was correctly measured Eastbound at 46mph and Westbound (over the same road and the same distance) at 52mph, their calculation is wrong.

Your mean average speed was only 3mph Westbound.