Can a Kit-Car be made from a Volume car platform?
Discussion
scenario - if a kit-car maker tried low volume car-making...
Imagine a volume car maker, sent the platform for one of its current cars to a uk kit-car maker, would that kit-car company be capable of building a new car on top of the donated platform?
for detail, the donated platform would have everything from the floor-plan to the wheel hubs already assembled, power+drivetrain included + electrics etc.
in short, the kit-car company would then build the car frame on top of this understructure, trim it out, adjust its setup, then add the wheels an facia etc.
the result would be a regular road car, new in image, but where the heavily manufactured asspect would be taken care of previously.
the platform donator would sell the finished cars thru their dealership, with a 50/50% net profit split from sales.
or, would this undertaking be too much, an require uk gov aid, an if so then how much?
Imagine a volume car maker, sent the platform for one of its current cars to a uk kit-car maker, would that kit-car company be capable of building a new car on top of the donated platform?
for detail, the donated platform would have everything from the floor-plan to the wheel hubs already assembled, power+drivetrain included + electrics etc.
in short, the kit-car company would then build the car frame on top of this understructure, trim it out, adjust its setup, then add the wheels an facia etc.
the result would be a regular road car, new in image, but where the heavily manufactured asspect would be taken care of previously.
the platform donator would sell the finished cars thru their dealership, with a 50/50% net profit split from sales.
or, would this undertaking be too much, an require uk gov aid, an if so then how much?
www.quantumcars.co.uk
2+2 is based on a fiesta chassis, Quantum just alter it.
Not quite what you mean but not far away.
2+2 is based on a fiesta chassis, Quantum just alter it.
Not quite what you mean but not far away.
The only things I've seen like that are the Matras from the 70s and 80s and the Banhams currently available. (and maybe the Renault spider???) The Matras used (if I recall corectly) old Simca floorpans - they were a French company. I think the cars were fairly good although I've also heard they are near impossible to restore because the fibreglass body is bonded to the steel floorpan and once the floorpan rusts its nearly impossible to weld without setting the GRP on fire!
The Banhams haven't been around that long. Personally, I don't like them - its always extremely difficult to feed point loads into a sheet steel structure nicely. Modern mass produced cars are almost invariably steel and the floorpans are designed to work in conjuction with the rest of the shell to give you a nice stiff structure. Its hard to replace that stiffness adequately with fibreglass. You'd also have your track, wheelbase and door apertures pretty much dictated - which would severely cramp your style when it comes to inventing a nice shape.
The Banhams haven't been around that long. Personally, I don't like them - its always extremely difficult to feed point loads into a sheet steel structure nicely. Modern mass produced cars are almost invariably steel and the floorpans are designed to work in conjuction with the rest of the shell to give you a nice stiff structure. Its hard to replace that stiffness adequately with fibreglass. You'd also have your track, wheelbase and door apertures pretty much dictated - which would severely cramp your style when it comes to inventing a nice shape.
The issue is that almost all modern cars are unibodies (i.e. the body provides a lot of the chassis stiffness). Cut the body off and you have to replace the structural portion with something, possibly a spaceframe, but I can't see that being particularly easy.
It would probably be cheaper and easier to take everything off the frame (or just have the manufacturer deliver the parts) and build around a complete custom spaceframe (which is the way most kits work).
It would probably be cheaper and easier to take everything off the frame (or just have the manufacturer deliver the parts) and build around a complete custom spaceframe (which is the way most kits work).
Vic
This was the system adopted in the 50's and 60's by the Italian Carrozzerias like Zagato, Abarth, Vignale, Moretti, Ghia, Fissore, Boano, Savio and many others when Fiat was supplying complete Fiat 500 and Fiat 600 and later Fiat 850 chassis.
Alfa Romeo supplied Giulia engine/ chassis components and Lancia supplied Fulvia.
Maserati supplied their chassis and engine components to the various carrozerias to create the famous FUORISERIES!!., for the rich and famous of the time.
Aston martin was supplying complete chassis and engines to Zagato for the famous DB 4 GTZ, Bristol also supplied a few to Zagato for their Bristol 406 Zagato.
These carrozerias would then create their own new design on top of a proven and serviceable OEM chassis and components. Take it to the local dealership and have it fixed if needed..
This lasted till the early 80's, but then it all dissapeared due to less interest by Fiat and other manufacturers.
I believe the tide is turning again, and people are becoming more individualistic again, and are interested in having a unique design built to order, but with proven and available components.
The industry is slowly taking notice, in fact the Alfa Romeo Nuvola concept car was exactly that, an original and approved chassis with a v6 engine, that was going to be supplied to any carrozeria, to create new designs.
The rumour is that the chief designer at Alfa Romeo, Walter Da Silva was so convinced by this concept that when it was cancelled, due to poor vision by Alfa Romeos management, left his post after 18 years and moved to Seat.
The British kit industry has a great opportunity and is in a position to replace the Italian Carrozerias of the 70's, but they need Vision and more interesting designs, but that is another story.....
Italo
This was the system adopted in the 50's and 60's by the Italian Carrozzerias like Zagato, Abarth, Vignale, Moretti, Ghia, Fissore, Boano, Savio and many others when Fiat was supplying complete Fiat 500 and Fiat 600 and later Fiat 850 chassis.
Alfa Romeo supplied Giulia engine/ chassis components and Lancia supplied Fulvia.
Maserati supplied their chassis and engine components to the various carrozerias to create the famous FUORISERIES!!., for the rich and famous of the time.
Aston martin was supplying complete chassis and engines to Zagato for the famous DB 4 GTZ, Bristol also supplied a few to Zagato for their Bristol 406 Zagato.
These carrozerias would then create their own new design on top of a proven and serviceable OEM chassis and components. Take it to the local dealership and have it fixed if needed..
This lasted till the early 80's, but then it all dissapeared due to less interest by Fiat and other manufacturers.
I believe the tide is turning again, and people are becoming more individualistic again, and are interested in having a unique design built to order, but with proven and available components.
The industry is slowly taking notice, in fact the Alfa Romeo Nuvola concept car was exactly that, an original and approved chassis with a v6 engine, that was going to be supplied to any carrozeria, to create new designs.
The rumour is that the chief designer at Alfa Romeo, Walter Da Silva was so convinced by this concept that when it was cancelled, due to poor vision by Alfa Romeos management, left his post after 18 years and moved to Seat.
The British kit industry has a great opportunity and is in a position to replace the Italian Carrozerias of the 70's, but they need Vision and more interesting designs, but that is another story.....
Italo
tvradict said:
www.quantumcars.co.uk
2+2 is based on a fiesta chassis, Quantum just alter it.
Not quite what you mean but not far away.
Quantum is base on their own fibreglass monocoque, only fiesta parts, ie engine, running gear are used.
Cheers, John
Fuoriserie makes some interesting points!
It used to be the way special models were done, the Karmann Ghia and Aston Zagato being good examples.
Modern cars tend to use tall suspension which makes for high bodywork over the wheel arches. The windscreen is also structural these days. Any special bodywork would need to keep the windscreen position and the bodywork height over the wheel arches and this restricts things a bit for the styling.
Can anyone think of a good combination?
Caterham Mazda (Caterham 21 body on an MX5)
Quantum Ford (Quantum on a Focus)
It used to be the way special models were done, the Karmann Ghia and Aston Zagato being good examples.
Modern cars tend to use tall suspension which makes for high bodywork over the wheel arches. The windscreen is also structural these days. Any special bodywork would need to keep the windscreen position and the bodywork height over the wheel arches and this restricts things a bit for the styling.
Can anyone think of a good combination?
Caterham Mazda (Caterham 21 body on an MX5)
Quantum Ford (Quantum on a Focus)
cymtriks said:you know i came across a bbc2 docu which said its owners once got reynard-f1 to co-design a properly practical new sportcar to sit alongside their current range - an wonder whats new on this scene as the caterham-21 looked a nice car an was a step in the right direction i say, tho a small step i admit.
Can anyone think of a good combination?
Caterham Mazda (Caterham 21 body on an MX5)
erp said:now recently i found that Dana make something called a 'rolling chassis' which is sold to makers to build on, an so wonder if similar was built in the UK or imported, then the true point made just above, could be fixed by kitcar makers building on top of a proven+dedicated car base???
The issue is that almost all modern cars are unibodies (i.e. the body provides a lot of the chassis stiffness).
any comments?
I think the problem is getting the rolling chassis or platform, if a kit manufacturer starts supplying basic platforms its inevitable it would have ideas of its own in that area.
Likewise would you want to base a car design on a new unproven chassis.
I have heard that smart may have been looking at something like this??
Cheers
Joe
Likewise would you want to base a car design on a new unproven chassis.
I have heard that smart may have been looking at something like this??
Cheers
Joe
Joe T said:ah no, they dont make any kitcars, just vehicle parts, so they'd be no conflict here
I think the problem is getting the rolling chassis or platform, if a kit manufacturer starts supplying basic platforms its inevitable it would have ideas of its own in that area. Likewise would you want to base a car design on a new unproven chassis.
Joe
also their rolling chassis isnt unproven but quite the opposite, as makers across the usa build upon it
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