RE: Road pricing's OK, say half of us
RE: Road pricing's OK, say half of us
Thursday 9th June 2005

Road pricing's OK, say half of us

Survey finds support for road charging


Will it cost us to drive here?
Will it cost us to drive here?
Almost half the population thinks road pricing could be OK, according to a recent survey. In advance of Alistair Darling’s speech on road pricing today, the RAC Foundation found that only eight per cent of people think the roads are too congested, and 47 per cent support the principle of a road pricing scheme in the UK -- as long as all the revenue raised was returned to the motorists through lower road tax. Only 16 per cent of people strongly oppose the proposal.

The results, from a MORI survey for Detica, will be encouraging for the Government as it looks to gain public acceptance for the principle of a ‘pay as you go’ scheme for motorists. The Foundation believes that the key challenge for the Government’s ambitious road pricing plan lies not with the technology to implement such a scheme, but with gaining public trust.

Under the new scheme, all vehicles would be fitted with a black box for tracking their progress using satellite technology. Charges would vary according to the time, type of road and location. The busiest roads would be the most expensive to drive on, and motorists could be charged up to £1.34 a mile for journeys through city centres and motorways at peak times. For those people who drive largely on remote rural roads they could find their journeys are free or possibly charged at 2p a mile. Fuel duty would either be significantly reduced or scrapped altogether, meaning that motorists in rural areas may find themselves paying much less for motoring than they do currently.

The Foundation said that "with congestion costing the economy some £20 billion a year, and with traffic speeds falling at all times of the day, and on all types of road it has become clear that urgent action needs to be taken to solve the congestion crisis."

The Foundation gave a cautious welcome to the principle of a road pricing scheme, and welcomed the opportunity to debate the idea.

No new taxes

However, the Foundation said it would not support road pricing if it were simply a way of introducing yet another tax on the motorist. Motorists already pay some £42 billion in motoring taxes a year, and yet only £6 billion is spent on roads. Reducing or scrapping fuel duty would go some way to reducing public unease about a road pricing scheme, however this alone would not be sufficient. Any scheme would have to be introduced as part of a package of measures to combat congestion, to include significant investment in the road network, and much improved public transport. The public will demand this.

The RAC Foundation believes that in order to gain public trust on such a fundamental policy, the Government should announce that an independent regulator will oversee and monitor the scheme and put a proper appeals system in place. This would ensure that any charges set are fair and transparent, and are not motivated by raising revenue but by cutting congestion.

Road pricing should not be used to price people out of owning or using cars. They are essential for daily life, and will continue to be the most important means of transport. Pricing should be targeted to influence the timing and routes of particular journeys, by reflecting the cost which bringing an additional vehicle on to an already crowded road can impose on others. The Foundation’s ‘Motoring towards 2050’ study said road pricing should apply to no more than 10 per cent of network, at certain times of the day.

Edmund King, Executive Director of the RAC Foundation said, "Last year people travelled 5.2 billion miles more on the roads than in 2003. Traffic growth cannot be sustained on this level. Road pricing will not be an easy option to implement, but could work in conjunction with better roads and public transport and reductions in fuel duty.

"While 47 per cent of people supporting the principle of a road pricing scheme is encouraging, the government now needs to make sure they come up with a proposal that will be acceptable to motorists.

"Motorists must be protected against excessive charges set by governments, central and local, to raise money. So charges must be fair and transparent, and overseen by an independent regulator. This is the only way to ensure trust and public acceptance of this important development."

Author
Discussion

apache

Original Poster:

39,731 posts

307 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Half the country is barking, that's why Labour got in again

telecat

8,528 posts

264 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
So why did another survey say only 14% were in favour? Darling's playing with the figures to get the result he wants!

cjn

230 posts

296 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
I've just done a survey & found that 100% of drivers oppose the new charges.

That'd be a survey of everyone sat in my seat at the moment

pdV6

16,442 posts

284 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Would be interesting to see how they phrased the questions...

Would you (a) pay per mile or (b) prefer to have your balls cut off with a rusty knife?

greg2k

291 posts

256 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
The MORI survey had it's questions skewed. It asked whether people should pay more for driving at peak times on congested roads or something like that.

The 14% for one was a straigt forward; Do you think this scheme is a good idea?

westmoorfarm

78 posts

260 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Anyone who believes that Road Charging will not increase the cost of driving for most drivers is living in cloud cuckoo land The goal of road charging is to DISCOURAGE drivers, it won't do this unless it's more expensive than the current system for most people.

This government, and previous governments over the last 20 years or so (regardless of political bent), have been seeking to maximise revenue from the motorist - why would this scheme be any different?

Vipers

33,418 posts

251 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
If "almost" half favour it, doesnt that mean the majority DO NOT FAVOUR IT, or am I missing something ?

tim2100

6,288 posts

280 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Who do they ask on these opinion surveys?? I think in this one they have only asked people who work in Darlings Layer??????? So all of them will have a vested interest!!!!!

havoc

32,610 posts

258 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
I read somewhere that it was "47% are in favour if all of the money raised goes back to the motorist in reduced fuel duty etc."

Which is a bit different from Darling's proposal.

Don't you just love survey's and statistics? Ask a question in the right way and with the right caveat, then quote the statistic without the caveat: Hey presto, one widely-accepted piece-of-sh!t policy!

New Labour: Just add spin!

ploz

89 posts

252 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
There are a few "swings and roundabouts" in this equation. If the scheme is to be "revenue neutral" then Road Tax and fuel duty should fall in compensation. Therefore, if you are an average driver, with and average car doing average mileage, hopefully, you would pay about the same over time. If, on top of that, like many PHers, you keep a large engined gas guzzling sports car in the garage for weekends, your "leisure miles" are going to get much cheaper - low mileage but high MPG. So - not all bad news.

chris_crossley

1,164 posts

306 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Trafic congestion is easy to solve. Can't see what all the fuss is about. Just spend money on decent public transport. Make new buildings contain enought parking spaces for all employees. and buils by-passes and new bloody roads. Fix the ones we have cos there appaling.

They must be mad to invest in technology to solve this. I work in the industry and don't trust the dam things. It will cost billions and won't work. It will be a white elephant bigger that the millenium dome. Darling wants shooting for even suggesting that throwing billions of pound on systems development will dig them out.

SPEND THE MONEY ON TRANSPORT for f's sake

GreenV8S

30,999 posts

307 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
If we accept the principle that drivers should pay more to drive on congested roads (I don't, but that is the principle that the proposal seems to be based on) then inevitably prices will rise everywhere as congestion gets worse. And it is likely to get worse and keep getting worse until eventually the charges are so high that people can't afford to travel, because imo that is the only way that these charges will have any significant effect on congestion. Revenue neutral my ar$e. On day one maybe, but after that ... the cash comes rolling in.

vetteheadracer

8,273 posts

276 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Excellent! I live on a fast 'B' road running parallel to a motorway so lots of traffic hurtling past my front door and nothing on the motorway during rush hours.......what a great idea....NOT

Zo-fo

193 posts

273 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Well, I've got 3 cars and a bike (4 road fund licences) live in a rural area, drive about 25K miles a year (probably 5K of which is abroad on holiday) but have daily 80 mile commute by train and car/bus. If petrol prices and bus/rail fares are reduced, road fund licences abolished, and drivers on "remote rural roads" do so for free, it's OK with me.

JEFAXN

1 posts

249 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
This is the most stupid thing I have ever herd of. Firstly look at the standard running costs:

Road Tax £190.00ish a year
Petrol Cost say £12000.00 a year ( i do 60000 miles a year.)

Total £12,190.00 a year.

Under the covernment plans, I would pay around £76000 a year to carry out my job!!!! That is just crazy. What is this contry coming too? How can they justify this?

Bunch of Red tape loving, tree hugging muppets!

Jef!

thegamekeeper

2,282 posts

305 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Except that you wont be able to get any of your cars or bikes out of your drive because your quiet rural road will become a congested rat run used by previous motorway users trying to avoid being ripped off by the eye in the sky

kettl

71 posts

290 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Correct me if I am wrong but if a considerable number of motorists currently do not tax their cars, pay insurance or even bother to let the DVLA know they are the owners how on earth are these vehicles going to be fitted with the Govt black boxes?

Now where did I put my bicycle clips...

'King Deadly

196 posts

260 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Relax, people, relax.

For this to work it would need one hell of a sophisticated software system, and you only have to look at the government record on sophisticated software systems.

Whether its a new 999 answering system, air traffic control, computerised MOT system, or whatever, it's always a monumental balls-up. More often than not the plug is pulled completely.

It's never gonna happen...

milo

40 posts

272 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Funny how they didn't mention this before the election.

I think the whole area of road finances needs overhauling. Money from petrol and road taxation is not just going on roads, its also paying for other benefits like nurses, teachers etc. What I would like to see is itemised taxation. If the government truely want a fair "You use, you pay" taxation method. Then wouldn't the economic way would be to put it on fuel instead of fitting every vehicle with GPS? (let me go with this...) If the annual road budget was provided solely from the fuel tax, wouldn't it drop and cease being a stealth tax?

If the government are committed to congestion, why have public transport charges gone up? If the government are committed to emissions, why aren't they supporting and encouraging alternative fuels, instead of flagshipping, back-slapping oil companies?

I sick of pretentious, naive, spin written by twenty-two twenty-two years olds. Its like they want us to suffer.


Humbug.

petros

2,441 posts

252 months

Thursday 9th June 2005
quotequote all
Must say that the idea of a journey to London costing nigh on £150 sounds a bit expensive to me ( from W'ton) All I can see happening is drivers using the side roads instead and clogging them up !!