£6500 - Reliable, fun, cheap to run? Possible?

[Warcloud36]

Hi

Currently I have a FN2 Type R, great car but didn't do much mileage, so the £330 a year tax feels like a kick in the balls.
Fuel/mpg isn't great either, especially once you enter the vtec and if you're not entering the vtec (like me) then what's the point? Basically I'm more of a lazy driver who doesn't want to rev the tits off my car to have fun.

Looking for something that's,
30mpg+
Max of £200 a year tax
Reliable, no huge issues like timing chains going pop or engine blocks cracking etc
Fun to drive
Is either 200hp as standard or can be remap to be 200hp or more.
Hatchback rather than a saloon.
£6500 to spend
Petrol only, I live inside the M25 and the low emissions zone is set to expand this way in 2021.


Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1750 tbi, seems reliable, good power, fun to drive, remaps to 280hp will do 30+mpg comes with a LSD, bonus.



I did looked at Hondas, they all seem to be normally aspirated, so no real tuning option there, same for Toyotas. . .?
BMW 1 Series, F20, looked good on paper, but seems like an unreliable N13 engine, PSA rubbish that I won't touch, plague of horror stories, bottom for reliability.
Newer Type R is £15k, so not an option.
Subaru, high tax, some of them £550 a year, no thank you
330i same as type r, £325 tax and have driven one, felt good on the A roads bit in the city it feel like a tank.

Edited by Warcloud36 on Thursday 23 January 22:26

[Driver101]

The Alfa isn't that good to drive at all. There is also nowhere to put your left foot which gets annoying very quickly.

[Pistonheader101]

A megane or Clio of some flavour

[Fastdruid]

Focus ST.

The old 5 cylinder 2.5T one.

Ok, so tax is a bit higher and mpg a bit lower but I don't honestly think you'll manage to hit those requirements.

[romeodelta]

Cooper S?

Get a good one for your budget and plenty of scope for mod'ing too.

500 Abarth is a good shout too.

[Belle427]

Golf Gti Mk 5.
Not the most exciting car as standard but a map really wakes them up.
Your almost in an Edition 30 with that budget, maybe a slightly higher mileage one though.

[ChrisH72]

Surely a fiesta ST meets all those criteria?

13 plate ST2 with reasonable miles can be had for £6.5k

I'd suggest a 208gti as well but given you don't want PSA that's out.

[Xenoous]

Mk2 Focus ST.

• Easy to maintain
• Brilliant on long runs as plenty of room, effortless engine and comfortable seats. Talking about the engine... The Volvo T5 unit is simply sublime. So much low down grunt.
• Fast enough, and easy (with added funds) to tune due to an entire catalogue of aftermarket parts.
• Involving drive.

Downsides are it's thirsty (I average 20 ish mpg), tax is £300 or whatever it is these days.

I've owned mine for 6 years now, no sign of getting rid just yet.

[VR99]

Xenoous said:

Mk2 Focus ST.

• Easy to maintain
• Brilliant on long runs as plenty of room, effortless engine and comfortable seats. Talking about the engine... The Volvo T5 unit is simply sublime. So much low down grunt.
• Fast enough, and easy (with added funds) to tune due to an entire catalogue of aftermarket parts.
• Involving drive.

Downsides are it's thirsty (I average 20 ish mpg), tax is £300 or whatever it is these days.

I've owned mine for 6 years now, no sign of getting rid just yet.

How are maintenance costs on these? Any scary big bills or reasonable if taken to an indy?

[Xenoous]

VR99 said:

How are maintenance costs on these? Any scary big bills or reasonable if taken to an indy?

Servicing costs are about £150-200 from an Indy, more if doing sparks, pollen filter etc. Reliability wise the engines are pretty good... There's been a few cases of cracked liners but I wouldn't let it put you off.
I saw some statistics a couple of years back that stated less than 0.4% of engines suffered from the cracked liners, but due to the amount of STs sold, it seemed like more. No idea if this is true of not.

Use good oil, good fuel, let it warm up and cool down and it should look after you. With all cars this age, you'll need to look at replacing consumables such as bushes (I'm finding that out at the moment).

However finding an unmodified, non-abused car will be difficult.

[Fastdruid]

VR99 said:

Xenoous said:

Mk2 Focus ST.

• Easy to maintain
• Brilliant on long runs as plenty of room, effortless engine and comfortable seats. Talking about the engine... The Volvo T5 unit is simply sublime. So much low down grunt.
• Fast enough, and easy (with added funds) to tune due to an entire catalogue of aftermarket parts.
• Involving drive.

Downsides are it's thirsty (I average 20 ish mpg), tax is £300 or whatever it is these days.

I've owned mine for 6 years now, no sign of getting rid just yet.

How are maintenance costs on these? Any scary big bills or reasonable if taken to an indy?

I have the same engine in the Mondeo. Can't obviously comment on the running gear but can on the engine which is a peach.

The worst is the ~125k/10 year service which is pricey (more so for the Focus actually than the Mondeo, probably due to less room). No more so than any other car that needs a cambelt done however. Services from Ford are £160 for an intermediate. Obviously more for a full.

There are a couple of things that *may* go wrong but there aren't many, worst is probably cracked liners but cases are very very rare. Other than that PCV's may go. Er and that's pretty much it. Obviously it does have a turbo which *may* need a replacement at some point but again it's rare.

Mine's on 135k now and I think it may need a new auxiliary adjuster or worst case an alternator. Apart from that it's been utterly solid.

[TameRacingDriver]

OP you're in a similar position to me, and I think you're going to struggle to hit all the criteria.

My suggestion would be an R56 N18 engined Mini Cooper S. It's not 200bhp out of the box but it will be with a remap, supposed to be good on juice and fairly reliable. Lots of torque.

Maybe a first gen 130i?

I don't need a hatch so I'm looking at mx5s, I saw a BBR stage 2 Turbo for 5500 the other day. Just a thought if you can relax the requirement for a hatchback!

[ZX10R NIN]

Go for a facelift ST-3 mine was running over 300bhp & I averaged 26mpg with mine which included a decent amount of trackday work it was very reliable & I'd recommend one.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

The Giulietta Cloverleaf these are a good drive but not as good as the Focus but the engine is a peach & you'll get a newer car for your money.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...


Leftfield option & not as cheap to run as say a Giulietta but the Insignia VXR is very good option real world MPG in mixed driving will be 22-23mpg but this is an underrated car but the road tax is steep.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Hot hatches won't be cheap to run in comparison to something like a warm hatch but the downside is while they're fun they're not as much fun as the full fat version.

Warm Hatch options:

GTC SRI 180

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

Megane GT 180 look for the two door version

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

[tonyb1968]

Warcloud36 said:

PSA rubbish that I won't touch, plague of horror stories, bottom for reliability.

You might want to read this...

https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Anyone mentioned the 330i yet?

You might pay a bit more in tax but they're lovely. Economical, practical, RWD fun.

[Pooh]

The Alfa is a good choice and far better than uninformed people think. https://youtu.be/2k0M50u7n2k

[Warcloud36]

I will look at the

Golf MK5
Sirocco 2.0 tsi
Alfa Giulietta
Megane 180 and 250

The ST doesn't interest me, never has.
Need something a bit bigger than the Fiat 500, boot space, loading up the car.


What surprises me about a lot of the cars that are newer than my FN2, is how slow the 0-60 is, they are like mid 7s and 8s but the FN2 is mid to late 6s, seems a bit weird these turbo 2.0 are not a bit quicker.

tonyb1968 said:

You might want to read this...

https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...

I don't really have the cash to buy new PSA engined cars, they seem reliable, it's when they are 50,000 miles, how good are they then, obviously how the owner maintained the vehicle plays a big part.
I am being pretty harsh on the PSA stuff. I had an R56 Mini and the engine in that was FSH 37,000, spat out an injector and killed the turbo.
Forums said it was a common issue, garages said it was there bread and butter, an engine that was put in to about 50 different cars across multiple manufacturers.

BMW use PSA stuff, 116i, 118i, 120i, so many issues and at really low mileage.

Edited by Warcloud36 on Friday 24th January 23:46

[Fiisch]

Warcloud36 said:

Hi

Subaru, high tax, some of them £550 a year, no thank you

Edited by Warcloud36 on Thursday 23 January 22:26

Fairly sure that only applies the 2.5l Hawkeye. Early Hawkeyes and older models don't fall into the £550 tax bracket.

[Warcloud36]

Fiisch said:

Fairly sure that only applies the 2.5l Hawkeye. Early Hawkeyes and older models don't fall into the £550 tax bracket.

Yeah that's correct, some of them are £570 a year to tax but they start at £325.