Help identifying an old classic car ball joint

[smokey mow]

I’m currently restoring an old historic single seater that was designed and built by Frank Costin but am struggling somewhat to identify one of the front suspension ball joints used on the car.

The car is a prototype and built in 1969 but had modified suspension fitted around 1971 which would date the parts to cars built before that date. My google searching has however failed me this time and I’m at a total loss. Most of the other parts on the car are either BMC mini or Hillman Imp but this appears to be something different, FWIW the redesign of the of the suspension was carried out by Tony Hilder of Piper Cars.

Here’s a picture of the joint in question, the main body is about 1-1/2” in diameter, it is retained by a circlip near the bottom and it looks like there should be a rubber boot over the joint, Any ideas or suggestions?

[smokey mow]

And this is the car in its earlier years that it’s fitted to.

[imagineifyeswill]

Ive been in the car repair business for coming on 45 years this year. This type of splined in balljoint is reasonably common nowadays but I cant recall coming across anything like this in the 70s or 80s. I would wonder if this was a more specialised motorsport balljoint at the time.

[838HNK]

Where is it for ?? Lower front upright balljoint or rear ??

I ran into similar challenges with a Clubmans car that seemed to use an awful lot of Cortina balljoints (must have been cheap at the time)

Jo White at Vulcan Dezign is ex Reynard (http://www.vulcandezign.co.uk/) and he made me new wishbones with rose joints but may also recognise what you have ... he also rebuilt the chassis, made the body for it and is a good contact for race car fabrication.

[smokey mow]

838HNK said:

Where is it for ?? Lower front upright balljoint or rear ??

I ran into similar challenges with a Clubmans car that seemed to use an awful lot of Cortina balljoints (must have been cheap at the time)

Jo White at Vulcan Dezign is ex Reynard (http://www.vulcandezign.co.uk/) and he made me new wishbones with rose joints but may also recognise what you have ... he also rebuilt the chassis, made the body for it and is a good contact for race car fabrication.

Thanks, it’s fitted to the front upper wishbones at the outboard end. All the other suspension joints are either rose joints or spherical bearings, it’s just these that are different. The uprights are unique to the car and magnesium castings.

I was hoping to keep everything as original and period correct as possible, hence hoping someone might be able to identify the part, but failing that the wishbones will be modified for something different.

Edited by smokey mow on Tuesday 4th February 22:36

[52classic]

That joint has a lot of similarities with the lower wishbone swivel of a Vauxhall Viva.

[droopsnoot]

52classic said:

That joint has a lot of similarities with the lower wishbone swivel of a Vauxhall Viva.

Yes, but the ratio of the spline depth to diameter seems very different - I don't think the splines are that deep on Viva lower ball joints. I meant to measure one yesterday.

Edited by droopsnoot on Wednesday 5th February 10:33

[52classic]

droopsnoot said:

52classic said:

That joint has a lot of similarities with the lower wishbone swivel of a Vauxhall Viva.

Yes, but the ratio of the spline depth to diameter seems very different - I don't think the splines are that deep on Viva lower ball joints. I meant to measure one yesterday.

Edited by droopsnoot on Wednesday 5th February 10:33

I see what you mean now, It is over 30 years since I fitted one! Just thought it may be a starting point for OP to talk to someone like Quinton Hazel (are they still going?) to advise some other, similar applications.

[Boosted LS1]

Don't know if this helps but I've seen pressed in joints on triumphs. TR7.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 5th February 21:17

[838HNK]

It's not from the Herald/Spitfire upright family or the TR3 family either so if its Stanpart it would have to be something like a saloon ...

[droopsnoot]

52classic said:

... to talk to someone like Quinton Hazel (are they still going?)

Sort of - name is now owned by Tetrosyl I think, and it's just a name. The QH ball joint I put on my daily in November 2018 didn't survive for a year, under 6000 miles.

Good point, I had a PDF catalogue somewhere for QH but I'm not sure if it gives that kind of detail.

[neill]

Looks remarkably like the Humber Sceptre one used by Lamborghini.
If you are anywhere near Northampton you can compare it with the ones I have.

[LimSlip]

The fact that there only a plain threaded section rather than a tapered pin is quite unusual for a suspension joint, which will rule out the majority of cars from that era. Do you know what the thread is, presumably a UNF size?

[52classic]

LimSlip said:

The fact that there only a plain threaded section rather than a tapered pin is quite unusual for a suspension joint, which will rule out the majority of cars from that era. Do you know what the thread is, presumably a UNF size?

You're right. I was focussing on the splines and it is the other end that's unusual! Maybe the threaded part goes through a brass bush in some sort of rose joint?

[838HNK]

These look like a possibility - I guess an old QH catalogue would be your best bet ..

Edited by 838HNK on Thursday 6th February 21:25

Edited by 838HNK on Thursday 6th February 21:26

Edited by 838HNK on Thursday 6th February 22:26

[Huntsman]

Ask this seller. He's an old school car parts shop man with a huge knowledge.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152941973033

[Thundersports]

QH don't exist as we all knew them waste of time now. Best chance would be FAI owned by racer Sean Walker depending on who you speak to or First Line techical but again it's pot luck.

[52classic]

i think it would help if we had pictures of the 'socket' where the pin and the splines fit on the car. I'm thinking that, starting with one of the proprietary ones we've seen, the taper could be machined parallel and the receiving splines altered with some sort of a boss.

[LimSlip]

838HNK said:

These look like a possibility - I guess an old QH catalogue would be your best bet ..

Those parts are very different; they have a tapered pin, a very short splined section and the retaining shoulder and circlips are the opposite way around i.e. the Roots part is designed to resist forces pulling the pin out, the OP's part is designed to resist forces pushing the pin in. That said if it's on the upper wishbone of a conventional double wishbone design the pull out/push in forces will be very small.

[john2443]

As Rootes have been mentioned, might be worth checking with Speedy Spares near Brighton, they have lots of old parts and specialise in Rootes.