Race pipes

[dern]

I was just about to buy a race can for my blade on ebay when I remembered I had to renew my insurance. I always wondered whether or not having a non road legal silencer affected cover or not so I asked them whether it just affected the cover of the can in terms of replacing like with like or the cover as a whole. My insurers (bike sure who are basically adrian flux) said that a non road legal silencer would totally invalidate all cover for anything. I don't think I'll bother.

Worth checking with your insurers if you have one and are burying your head so to speak.

Regards,

Mark

[stooz]

I found that with fluxy too.

My current insurers consider the can to be exempt. ie. unless it was proved to be the cause of the accident/claim, they dont care. They will however, not replace it, its not covered at all, if the bike needs an exhaust as part of a repair, they will replace with a standard can (which will go on ebay!!)

I even have that in writing.

The only way I can imagine an exhaust being the cause is if it fell off and hit a windscreen..

[fergus]

A non legal silencer can't invalidate your cover totally, as it doesn't affect the roadworthiness of the bike, as it's not part of the MoT test (specifically with respect to noise, etc).

They would still have to honour a third party claim I suspect. They could argue that your contract with them was invalidated as you had failed to disclose what they consider to be a material fact (how they believe this would increase any other risk profile toher than theft, I'd like to hear!)

I suspect you spoke to a monkey telesales person, rather than one of their underwriters?

[dern]

stooz said:

I found that with fluxy too. My current insurers consider the can to be exempt. ie. unless it was proved to be the cause of the accident/claim, they dont care. They will however, not replace it, its not covered at all, if the bike needs an exhaust as part of a repair, they will replace with a standard can (which will go on ebay!!) I even have that in writing.

That's what I was hoping for. The problem is that they were so much cheaper than everyone else for unlimited mileage incl commuting and european cover.

I've never really wanted a louder can but one of the guys I went to france with this w/e had one and it did sound good without being too loud. Although as I fired mine up at 7.30 this morning I did have 2nd thoughts.

Regards,

Mark

[dern]

fergus said:

A non legal silencer can't invalidate your cover totally, as it doesn't affect the roadworthiness of the bike, as it's not part of the MoT test (specifically with respect to noise, etc).

I have to disagree. Firstly a non legal silencer can and will fail the mot unless your tester turns a blind eye and secondly I catagorically asked for exactly the situation you mention (ie 3rd party etc) and they catagorically stated that all cover would be invalidated. The person did not sound like a monkey and knew exactly what I was talking about.

I want you to be right but as far as bikesure/flux are concerned you aren't. How you sit with your insurers may be a different matter but the reason I posted the info was that the assumption you and many others are making is a dangerous one. You *may* well be riding around without any insurance regardless of what you have read on a forum or heard down the pub.

Regards,

Mark

[vitesse39]

dern said:

fergus said: A non legal silencer can't invalidate your cover totally, as it doesn't affect the roadworthiness of the bike, as it's not part of the MoT test (specifically with respect to noise, etc). I have to disagree. Firstly a non legal silencer can and will fail the mot unless your tester turns a blind eye and secondly I catagorically asked for exactly the situation you mention (ie 3rd party etc) and they catagorically stated that all cover would be invalidated. The person did not sound like a monkey and knew exactly what I was talking about. I want you to be right but as far as bikesure/flux are concerned you aren't. How you sit with your insurers may be a different matter but the reason I posted the info was that the assumption you and many others are making is a dangerous one. You *may* well be riding around without any insurance regardless of what you have read on a forum or heard down the pub. Regards, Mark

Mark is quite correct.
Appart from anything else, during the set up of your policy you will be asked 'has the vehicle been modified in any way'. If you have put on a different can you must declare it even if it is a legal can.
I know a legal can isn't what we are concerned with but an insurance co. who doesn't want to pay up may jump on it (same as putting alloys on a car).
At the end of the insurance schedule that you will later sign, you agree that all the info you have given is true and that you realise that your policy will be invalidated if you have told porkies! It's the paper that counts not the phone call.
If you don't declare the can and the engineer clocks it ....well we all know how willing to part with money our insurance companies are.

Yep, some people may get away with it (and good on them), I reckon if you really want a can that is loud to the point of not being legal, make damn sure you get the bike home and change back to the original before the insurance man sees it. Otherwise just use a loud'er' but still legal can.

The info comes from the wife who worked for the Insurance Ombudsman and GA.....I hate it when she's right

[dern]

vitesse39 said:

Yep, some people may get away with it (and good on them)

I'm certainly not peeved that many people get away with it in the eyes of the law, ie plod ignores you, as if my insurance weren't bothered then I'd happily take the risk with the police. However, riding around without insurance is bloody stupid and making the assumption you have insurance when one phone call would sort it out one way or another is bewilderingly daft.

All the best,

Mark

[Fats25]

Slightly different, but with my car insurance I had an issue with Admiral where they quoted on my Alfa.

Working for an insurance company I went through the quote with a fine tooth comb, and they had a statement that the car did not have a spoiler fitted.

I called them up and advised them that it did have a spoiler, and they increased the quote by £200! After arguing for a couple of days, it transpired that although I hate to admit it, they were right. The spoiler (and other bits) were part of an "aerokit" that was not standard to the car. So I got really pedantic and went through everything over the phone with them, they then mentioned that the alloys were non standard (17" and not 16" ) so it would be another extra £100! They were wrong, and I even got a letter from Alfa stating they were wrong. They wouldn't admit it.

I cancelled the insurance - and went to Elephant (same company!!) and again went through all the details fully, they didn't care about any of the details and quoted at the original quote. I got this in writing from them.

Six months later, some idiot drives into back of car. I was so glad that I had bothered to go into such detail, as it was disputed and they originally questioned the details I had given them, until I produced the copy of the letter!

I will save this years insurance story for another day....... but remember - even though it pays my wages - insurance is one big tax - and you will never be the winner!!


>> Edited by Fats25 on Friday 10th June 11:51

[fergus]

still maintain that if you had an accident, and hence a 3rd party claim was made against you, that the insurance company would have to stand behind the claim, unless they could prove that the 'offending item' was a CONTRIBUTORY FACTOR to the accident. If it got nicked - tough luck.

Very few insurers will refuse a 3rd party claim. Whether they honour 1st party is another matter, but with a bike, the most you can lose is about 10k - so what?

[dern]

fergus said:

still maintain that if you had an accident, and hence a 3rd party claim was made against you, that the insurance company would have to stand behind the claim, unless they could prove that the 'offending item' was a CONTRIBUTORY FACTOR to the accident. If it got nicked - tough luck. Very few insurers will refuse a 3rd party claim. Whether they honour 1st party is another matter, but with a bike, the most you can lose is about 10k - so what?

Why would they pay for your 3rd party costs if you broke the terms of the contract and thereby invalidated the entire contract as detailed in the contract terms? It says specifically in their terms that if you haven't come clean with the spec of your bike and the mods then your insurance is invalid so why would they pay up?

Mark

[vitesse39]

fergus said:

still maintain that if you had an accident, and hence a 3rd party claim was made against you, that the insurance company would have to stand behind the claim, unless they could prove that the 'offending item' was a CONTRIBUTORY FACTOR to the accident. If it got nicked - tough luck. Very few insurers will refuse a 3rd party claim. Whether they honour 1st party is another matter, but with a bike, the most you can lose is about 10k - so what?

The chances are that the 3rd parties losses would be recovered by their company through the Motor Insurers Beuraux (a group of main companies, set this up to cover losses from uninsured drivers and untraced drivers etc), but with these companies having to put funds into the MIB scheme it puts all premiums up in the first place.

[dern]

vitesse39 said:

The chances are that the 3rd parties losses would be recovered by their company through the Motor Insurers Beuraux (a group of main companies, set this up to cover losses from uninsured drivers and untraced drivers etc), but with these companies having to put funds into the MIB scheme it puts all premiums up in the first place.

If I crashed and the insurers would pay through my policy because of an illegal can so 3rd party costs get recovered from the MIB I can't believe that that would be the end of the story and that I wouldn't face prosecution.

Mark

[vitesse39]

dern said:

If I crashed and the insurers would pay through my policy because of an illegal can so 3rd party costs get recovered from the MIB I can't believe that that would be the end of the story and that I wouldn't face prosecution. Mark

Nope, your right, the MIB would then still be chasing you in this instance to reclaim their outlay. Plod may also be involved for riding without insurance, illegal bike etc.

[catso]

If fitting race pipes means your bike is uninsured then there must be a helluva lot of 'uninsured' bikes out there

[dern]

catso said:

If fitting race pipes means your bike is uninsured then there must be a helluva lot of 'uninsured' bikes out there

It's dependant on your insurance. That's why I posted in the first place... so that people could check.

[ironmaiden2005]

dose anybody know were i could get a cheep down pipe 4 gsx 600

>> Edited by ironmaiden2005 on Monday 13th June 10:25