Current politics and live music..

[Teddy Lop]

Is it hacking anyone else off?

I'm a centrist - my belief set has elements that fall both sides of the line, but I've long reconciled that alternative music is dominated, on the surface at least, by a lefty mindset, and a lot of cookie cutter tribalistic one-minders, not unsimilar to that which has hit mainstream politics in a big way, has been the norm forever in this world. I am NOT complaining of politics in music in general, that would be deeply foolish - in 25 years or so I've enjoyed many many hundreds of gigs, loads of festivals and seen a wide variety bands and singers, including such utterly mad preaching lefties such as jello biafra and just rolled with it, even when not "fully on board".

But recently, more and more far more nuanced bands that have written brilliant, complex lyrics about matters that are open to interpretation, that are inclusive, that treat the listener as an intelligent individual, that things are never "black and white", and have never tried to dumb things down... seem to feel compelled to garnish this with generic monkey grade anti [right wing boogeyman] interjections.. And it just all feels a bit uncomfortable. The other night one was having a go at Boris Johnson - called him a "fat racist pig"... I mean for one half the room were fatter, and FFS if you're going to lecture at least come up with some decent, considered, relevent insults. I could have stayed at home and read pistonheads (insert social media of choice) if I wanted worthless childish slander from pissants. I came out tonight to hear some songs. Its not personal, I didn't vote for the chimp (if that should matter) - but my mood drops as it just feels so "oh here we go". I will not join the chanting monkey mob and resent what feels almost like coercion to have a permissible view if you want to belong.

I dunno, I just feel a bit done with it, the mrs is badgering me about a music festival and I'm struggling to find the want TBH.

I guess its the mess that mainstream politics are today filtering through, but anyone else feeling this way? I listen to a lot of metal/punk/industrial etc, I dunno how it affects outside this end of music - although a folk band from cornwall recently stopped the gig and declared they were going to have to address the important matter dividing society - you could feel heckles go up across the room - then stated the correct cream/jam approach to scones

[Grrbang]

Normally, all music is political, right back to its roots. Normally, there's sort of a shared mindset among people at gigs.

Presumably you're referring to Boris and Brexit criticism? Those issues divide society differently than left vs right (mostly age and tertiary education), so bands are making a big mistake by voicing an opinion! I've been to metal shows where Brexit criticism got loud heckles from some middle aged blokes.

[Lotobear]

Grrbang said:

Normally, all music is political, right back to its roots. Normally, there's sort of a shared mindset among people at gigs.

Presumably you're referring to Boris and Brexit criticism? Those issues divide society differently than left vs right (mostly age and tertiary education), so bands are making a big mistake by voicing an opinion! I've been to metal shows where Brexit criticism got loud heckles from some middle aged blokes.

..obviously not an Iron Maiden show then!

[Type R Tom]

I get a bit sick of it too, I regard myself as being central and should be more left considering my circumstances but people singing "Jeremy Corben" at Glastonbury a few years ago just got on my nerves.

I think part of it lies in the "champagne socialist" element of the people on stage telling me what I should and shouldn't feel / believe in etc.

[SamR380]

You have to be pretty open minded and optimistic to be and artist.

Some might say that's the opposite of a Conservative voting Brexit supporter.

[Johnnytheboy]

Grrbang said:

Normally, all music is political, right back to its roots. Normally, there's sort of a shared mindset among people at gigs.

Presumably you're referring to Boris and Brexit criticism? Those issues divide society differently than left vs right (mostly age and tertiary education), so bands are making a big mistake by voicing an opinion! I've been to metal shows where Brexit criticism got loud heckles from some middle aged blokes.

30 years ago, Dave Mustaine of Megadeth famously got up on stage in Northern Ireland and said something fairly simplistic in support of a united Ireland, having I assume received his opinion on the subject from the US media.

It did not end well

[bigpriest]

Recording contracts, publishing deals, merchandise, royalties, copyright, concerts - it's hardly a career choice that shies away from all that capitalist claptrap.

[JustALooseScrew]

Teddy Lop said:

including such utterly mad preaching lefties such as jello biafra

Are you sure about that?

Please please have a listen to his spoken word album 'No More Cocoons' from ~1987.

I have it on vinyl complete with the 'fk Facts' newspaper and the additional PMRC papers included. It's a long time since I read them and I just looked and they are dropping to bits - I should probably get them scanned and archived

Here you go - youtube has it, it's a long one, double album, he could teach a few people on PH how to rant.

Give it 10 minutes and then decide if you don't wan't to listen to the whole story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6oS9Q4nijg

[Teddy Lop]

bigpriest said:

Recording contracts, publishing deals, merchandise, royalties, copyright, concerts - it's hardly a career choice that shies away from all that capitalist claptrap.

I was going to say that's a pretty ignorant thing to say - the chances of "making it" in just about any artistic endeavour are miniscule. But of those who do succeed they normally have a self-motivatedness that's far more of a thing the right wing cherish...

[anonymous-user]

The whole entertainment is geared to the left, to be kind and compassionate. The truth is in most cases people like to go in the entertainment industry in the hope of doing something they enjoy whilst making lots of money.
Whether it's Hollywood A listers or Michael Eavis they're all full of bullst.

[SamR380]

Raygun said:

The truth is in most cases people like to go in the entertainment industry in the hope of doing something they enjoy whilst making lots of money.

I take it you don't know many professional performing artists? Most people don't 'go' into the entertainmaint industry, you spend years learning a craft for little or no money before you can even make a living. People do this because they love their art, money has nothing to do with it.

There is a small, privelidged group who are disproportionally represented among 'famous' artists, whose success is mainly a result of their parents being loaded/famous already. I assume these are the 'most cases' you mean?

[irocfan]

SamR380 said:

You have to be pretty open minded and optimistic to be and artist.

Some might say that's the opposite of a Conservative voting Brexit supporter.

and some might say that the drive to succeed, be a standout in your field and then (gasp!) make filthy lucre is the opposite of a leftist, kumbaya we're all equal types

[SamR380]

irocfan said:

and some might say that the drive to succeed, be a standout in your field and then (gasp!) make filthy lucre is the opposite of a leftist, kumbaya we're all equal types

I know quite a few professional performers and none of them are even remotely driven by money, if they were they'd have given up years ago. They are driven for 'success' (not money) and to be the best they can but some people (prepare for a shock) aren't obsessed with money.

A lot like scientists and academics, they're driven, work really hard on their profession but absolutely don't do it for the money. Some of them may come up with an idea that makes them mega-rich but they weren't motivated by that. Funnily enough I'd say scientists and academics also fall into the 'open-minded and optimistic' demographic.

[anonymous-user]

SamR380 said:

I take it you don't know many professional performing artists? Most people don't 'go' into the entertainmaint industry, you spend years learning a craft for little or no money before you can even make a living. People do this because they love their art, money has nothing to do with it.

I think I've known more professional artists than yourself being related to someone who won five grammy's in one night and working for someone who won a grammy(Rupert Neve). I've done work for Air Studios, Electric Lady Studios, Master Rock Studios, Power Station(Avatar), Right Track Studios and others. It cost $2000 a day in Electric Lady in the late 80s.
As I said people go into the music industry because they enjoy it with an added bonus that it can be very rewarding financially if they make it.

[SamR380]

Raygun said:

I think I've known more professional artists than yourself being related to someone who won five grammy's in one night and working for someone who won a grammy(Rupert Neve). I've done work for Air Studios, Electric Lady Studios, Master Rock Studios, Power Station(Avatar), Right Track Studios and others. It cost $2000 a day in Electric Lady in the late 80s.
As I said people go into the music industry because they enjoy it with an added bonus that it can be very rewarding financially if they make it.

Sorry Raygun, I think I misinterpreted the tone of your post.

[anonymous-user]

It goes back a long way.
In the 60s George Harrison penned the song Taxman having a dig at the amount of tax the Wilson Labour government was taking off The Beatles, after a period out of office Wilson's Labour government returned in the mid 70s once again high earning rock stars were getting taxed heavy and a few headed for America where the tax for high earners was a lot less ( Rod Stewart called his album at the time Atlantic Crossing), and then in the late 70s the punk bombshell happened, punk in it's early form was the nemesis of the self-indulgent arrogant rock stars of the previous years, then Margaret Thatcher and her right wing Tory government got elected who encouraged less tax and making loudsa money BUT what punk had done in the late 70s was make it embarrassing for artists to brag about their wealth and fame, so the way to be in the 80s was to show compassion,take Phil Collins, earning shed loads of money but at the forefront of Live Aid. As the 80s moved on people got cynical about this compassion and in Phil Collins case culminated with the release of Another Day In Paradise, and certain people were saying "Is Phil Collins really concerned about the plight of the homeless?"
In recent times we've had one of the Gallagher's telling everybody how he votes Labour whilst living in a plush London residence and not on a council estate in Moss Side, he's been known to criticise Phil Collins but me thinks Gallagher is a hypocrite.
The 1970's rock star has now been replaced with the top footballers with their arrogance and wealth.
Don't ever say you vote Tory if your an artist, your be seen as greedy and arrogant, either say you vote Labour or keep your mouth shut.
As Joe Walsh said "Life's Been Good"

[Teddy Lop]

JustALooseScrew said:

Are you sure about that?

Please please have a listen to his spoken word album 'No More Cocoons' from ~1987.

I have it on vinyl complete with the 'fk Facts' newspaper and the additional PMRC papers included. It's a long time since I read them and I just looked and they are dropping to bits - I should probably get them scanned and archived

Here you go - youtube has it, it's a long one, double album, he could teach a few people on PH how to rant.

Give it 10 minutes and then decide if you don't wan't to listen to the whole story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6oS9Q4nijg

I never really thought too much about him I guess beyond pulling up someone that says I'm not exactly right-wing and his anti right-wing rants popped into mind, but isn't most of the left not *actually* left so much as out to prove they're not right to one degree or another?

Anyway we digress, my point isn't that alt music is a sometimes to a vomit inducing hotbed of lefty/anti righty posturing and a st-ton of hypocrisy, we all know that, its more just recently, after 25 years of zillions of gigs and festivals I've just started feeling fed up with how a number of bands that haven't done this previously (some which I've seen probably 20 times) seem to be making comments that just feel so deeply dumb, and also inauthentic.

[stinkyspanner]

On a slightly related note I get a free magazine subscription with my bank account, last year I got 'Car' but it got a bit samey so this year I thought I'd get 'Q'. The whole thing is filled with leftist claptrap, honestly all the artist interviews are utter bks. There are a couple of interesting articles I spose but on the whole it's like a 6th form rag, probably won't bother reading it in future

Edited by stinkyspanner on Friday 14th February 08:41