Pilots Min Rest Period

[Macski]

Can someone settle an argument for me

What is the minimum rest an commercial airline pilot can take between duty, through my Binging skills I have discovered it is 10 hours and can not be reduced, however someone insists that this only applies to home base and the minimum rest period is 7.5 hours away from home base.

[anonymous-user]

Depends on loads of factors like who the regulator for your airline is eg FAA, EASA etc if you’re in a hotel, how far the hotel is away and how long your duty you just did was and what kind of duty you’re doing next.

There may also be more restrictive company rules above this.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 11th February 12:36

[anonymous-user]

For Army Air Corps it’s about as long as it takes to make a brew on one of those wretched hexi stoves or whenever the Colonel needs to set off for “an important 5pm-on-a-Friday meeting”, whichever is the shorter.
For Royal Air Force it’s around three days, more if the rates and allocated hotel are good and have a golf course near by.
Royal Navy....What rest? It’ll be fine.

[Crumpet]

Ten hours for us. That’s not to say some won’t have shorter rest approved.

You didn’t ask, but ten hours is woefully inadequate for proper rest. Conversely, most at our company find that after a long, overnight duty that much more than 17-18 hours is counterproductive as you tend to rest/sleep for the first part of it (say the first 12 hours) and then spend the rest awake - and then carry out another duty. As a result you can be spending 20-30 hours awake very easily and quite regularly.

14 hours, in my opinion, is about optimum.

[Macski]

Crumpet said:

Ten hours for us. That’s not to say some won’t have shorter rest approved.

But don't the easa regs say min rest 12 hours at base and 10 hours away from base. FAA says 10 hours min???

[anonymous-user]

Macski said:

Crumpet said:

Ten hours for us. That’s not to say some won’t have shorter rest approved.

But don't the easa regs say min rest 12 hours at base and 10 hours away from base. FAA says 10 hours min???

Do you have a particular example eg airline or country or duties are you asking what the minimum possible rest between any two duties under all regulatory bodies could be?

Is this in the U.K. you’re asking about?

As I said before it depends on what you’re doing next eg whether you’re home or in a hotel or if it’s a flight or maybe your airline are positioning you somewhere etc.

[Macski]

El stovey said:

Do you have a particular example eg airline or country or duties are you asking what the minimum possible rest between any two duties under all regulatory bodies could be?

Is this in the U.K. you’re asking about?

As I said before it depends on what you’re doing next eg whether you’re home or in a hotel or if it’s a flight or maybe your airline are positioning you somewhere etc.

NO, I just imagined daily rest would be governed by regulation

[anonymous-user]

Macski said:

El stovey said:

Do you have a particular example eg airline or country or duties are you asking what the minimum possible rest between any two duties under all regulatory bodies could be?

Is this in the U.K. you’re asking about?

As I said before it depends on what you’re doing next eg whether you’re home or in a hotel or if it’s a flight or maybe your airline are positioning you somewhere etc.

NO, I just imagined daily rest would be governed by regulation

Well it is but it depends on all the factors mentioned above.

In the same way the maximum length duty you can do varies depending on a multitude of factors and varies from country to country and airline to airline.

If you’ve just done a long duty you’ll need a longer rest if you’ve done a shorter duty you’ll need less but it depends if you’re down route or in your home base and if you’re in your home base, it depends what you’re doing next.

[Macski]

El stovey said:

Well it is but it depends on all the factors mentioned above.

In the same way the maximum length duty you can do varies depending on a multitude of factors and varies from country to country and airline to airline.

If you’ve just done a long duty you’ll need a longer rest if you’ve done a shorter duty you’ll need less but it depends if you’re down route or in your home base and if you’re in your home base, it depends what you’re doing next.

OK, pilot works for Dodgy Airlines registered in London, starts work 5 am takes off at 6


London - Paphos FT 4.30 Turnaround 30
Paphos - London FT 4.30 Turnaround 30
London - Warsaw FT 2.30 Turnaround 30
Warsaw - London FT 2.30 Duty Ends

So our pilot has worked 16hrs 9 o'clock PM

Could he start work again at 5 am the following morning

What if he started work at 5AM takes off at 6AM

London - Warsaw 2.30 30
Warsaw - London 2.30 Duty Ends

So seven hours on duty finishes work at midday, would he legal be allowed to work again say 19.30 the same day?

Edited by Macski on Tuesday 11th February 16:56

[anonymous-user]

Macski said:

OK, pilot works for Dodgy Airlines registered in London, starts work 5 am takes off at 6


London - Paphos FT 4.30 Turnaround 30
Paphos - London FT 4.30 Turnaround 30
London - Warsaw FT 2.30 Turnaround 30
Warsaw - London FT 2.30 Duty Ends

So our pilot has worked 16hrs 9 o'clock PM

Could he start work again at 5 am the following morning

What if he started work at 5AM takes off at 6AM

London - Warsaw 2.30 30
Warsaw - London 2.30 Duty Ends

So seven hours on duty finishes work at midday, would he legal be allowed to work again say 19.30 the same day?

Edited by Macski on Tuesday 11th February 16:56

Assuming he’s based “in London”

These aren’t the kind of duties I’m familiar with but my understanding is

A) Definitely no he’d need at least as long as the duty or 12 hours off so he’d need at least 16 possibly 16:30 hours off.

B) No again he’d need at least 12 hours off

He could maybe do a split duty on the second one though provided the airline provided him with accommodation etc but it’s not something we do and I doubt he’d be able to work again at 19:30 anyway.

So I’d say no to both.

[Macski]

El stovey said:

Assuming he’s based “in London”

These aren’t the kind of duties I’m familiar with but my understanding is

A) Definitely no he’d need at least as long as the duty or 12 hours off so he’d need at least 16 possibly 16:30 hours off.

B) No again he’d need at least 12 hours off

He could maybe do a split duty on the second one though provided the airline provided him with accommodation etc but it’s not something we do and I doubt he’d be able to work again at 19:30 anyway.

So I’d say no to both.

So there are regulations regarding rest times and it is not just up to the airline?

[wisbech]

Macski said:

So there are regulations regarding rest times and it is not just up to the airline?

Correct. The regulations are minimums though, most airlines would have more conservative ones for scheduling

[Unbusy]

Macski, if only!
OP, up until recently it was 12 hours at home base (or longer if the previous duty was longer) and if away on a night-stop then it can be less but it was a minimum of 10 hours at the hotel. Just enough for a meal, beer, shag the hosties and a few hours kip.

[Crumpet]

Macski said:

OK, pilot works for Dodgy Airlines registered in London, starts work 5 am takes off at 6


London - Paphos FT 4.30 Turnaround 30
Paphos - London FT 4.30 Turnaround 30
London - Warsaw FT 2.30 Turnaround 30
Warsaw - London FT 2.30 Duty Ends

So our pilot has worked 16hrs 9 o'clock PM

Could he start work again at 5 am the following morning

What if he started work at 5AM takes off at 6AM

London - Warsaw 2.30 30
Warsaw - London 2.30 Duty Ends

So seven hours on duty finishes work at midday, would he legal be allowed to work again say 19.30 the same day?

Edited by Macski on Tuesday 11th February 16:56

Your first example just wouldn’t be possible. It’s way beyond the maximum flight duty period allowed.

If you’re genuinely interested in the regs have a search for EU-OPS Sub-part Q. Spoiler: it’s not interesting!

The very rough basics:

Maximum 13hrs flight duty period (check in to final on-block). Duty period will usually be the FDP +30 mins. This maximum FDP gets reduced by 30 minutes for every sector more than three. It’s possible to extend the FDP at the discretion of the captain to allow for unplanned delays etc... (extra paperwork)

Rest needs to be the same as the duty period, but can be reduced by two hours to a minimum of ten hours.

Then you’ve got split duties and tons of other dull stuff that basically allow the operator to take the piss out of the crew.

They obviously need a framework that allows companies to make money but still remain safe, although the balance is definitely towards making money. It’s very easy to plan a schedule that is utterly fatiguing yet perfectly legal and as crew you either suck it up and use in-flight rest or you refuse to do it. Fortunately our company will listen to concerns and replan accordingly.