RE: Dumb Airbags
Tuesday 1st October 2002
Dumb Airbags
Smart airbag systems are confused as hell by dwarves in lead boots.
Discussion
If the manufactures were serious about occupant safety wouldn't they be fitting four/five point harnesses like rally/race cars? Airbags are stupid - they only work if you plan to plough straight on into something that is going to totaly stop your car. If you're still moving after the first impact you won't be able to drive because you've just been hit in the face by a big balloon.
Looking at the number of inventive ways in which belts are worn, particularly by the fairer sex, under arm, over arm (wombling free?),I do not think we can trust most people to cope with a competition style belt, poor though it is the bag is probably the best compromise.
Whether or not personal safety should be a matter for State intervention is an entirely different subject though.
Whether or not personal safety should be a matter for State intervention is an entirely different subject though.
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Looking at the number of inventive ways in which belts are worn, particularly by the fairer sex, under arm, over arm (wombling free?),I do not think we can trust most people to cope with a competition style belt, poor though it is the bag is probably the best compromise.
Whether or not personal safety should be a matter for State intervention is an entirely different subject though.
I was assuming that the driver and passengers were serious about occupant safety. If they're not let 'em die.
Nice Wombles reference, I'm going to be cursed by the theme music for the rest of the day.
Ever seen "Demolition Man"?....
...the airbag of the future consists instantly filling the whole car with expanding foam, temperarily isolating all the contents of the vehile, which then liqifies into a flame retardant. Not a bad idea if slightly unworkable.
You'd be fine, but it might ruin that smashing blouse hey Venom?
Mouse
...the airbag of the future consists instantly filling the whole car with expanding foam, temperarily isolating all the contents of the vehile, which then liqifies into a flame retardant. Not a bad idea if slightly unworkable.
You'd be fine, but it might ruin that smashing blouse hey Venom?
Mouse
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Ever seen "Demolition Man"?....
...the airbag of the future consists instantly filling the whole car with expanding foam, temperarily isolating all the contents of the vehile, which then liqifies into a flame retardant. Not a bad idea if slightly unworkable.
You'd be fine, but it might ruin that smashing blouse hey Venom?
Mouse
Couldn't agree more, I mean, come on, which I prefer to save, my life or my blouse? I don't think there's any need to say anything further on that point........
Being sensible though, which is unusal for either of us, there must be some sort of workable solution that allows you to save your life, your blouse and allow you to retain the ability to see where you're going. Not everyone will attempt to do so, but surely it would an advantage to have the ability to attempt some sort of manouevre should your car not be halted by the first impact involved in a crash.
Technology must be able to come up with something, although you still can't legislate for idiots who deem a seatbelt/other saftey accessory an inconvienience not worthy of use
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Perhaps if you'd been in an accident where an airbag is credited as having saved your life, you may regard them as being a good product and a worthy investment.
I know I do.
So you'd appriciate a lighter, cheaper, simpler more reliable solution?
A worthy investment is the ten seconds it takes to buckle in.
Plus nothing annoys kids with seat belt warmers more than people using real belts - way more cool.
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...there must be some sort of workable solution that allows you to save your life, your blouse and allow you to retain the ability to see where you're going. Not everyone will attempt to do so, but surely it would an advantage to have the ability to attempt some sort of manouevre should your car not be halted by the first impact involved in a crash.
Technology must be able to come up with something, although you still can't legislate for idiots who deem a seatbelt/other saftey accessory an inconvienience not worthy of use
Technology has come up with something - look at rallying - look at F1 - the answer is the humble four/five/six point harness.
Plus it's cheaper than replacing an exploding steering wheel in every crashed car - How much is this adding to insurance?
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Babies carrying bags of spuds are said to be the worst scenario.
I know this is a joke, but would you really trust the life of your baby to a piece of software deciding whether or not to inflate the airbag?
Proper child seat securely fastened in the back is the only option, and if its a 2-seater, you'll be needing another car for baby-carrying duties!
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Plus it's cheaper than replacing an exploding steering wheel in every crashed car - How much is this adding to insurance?
If you've been in a crash where the airbag's gone off, presumably replacing the steering wheel is the last of the insurance company's worries?
Ummmmm nope - clipped a kerb in mine and two of the three airbags went off, Scared the crap out of me and nearly caused an accident (yeah, ok, so I shouldn't've clipped the kerb) but they aren't the catch all solution. And you can't fit four or five point harnesses in a 5 seater - not practically possible.
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Plus it's cheaper than replacing an exploding steering wheel in every crashed car - How much is this adding to insurance?
If you've been in a crash where the airbag's gone off, presumably replacing the steering wheel is the last of the insurance company's worries?
Ummmmm nope - clipped a kerb in mine and two of the three airbags went off, Scared the crap out of me and nearly caused an accident (yeah, ok, so I shouldn't've clipped the kerb) but they aren't the catch all solution. And you can't fit four or five point harnesses in a 5 seater - not practically possible.
Exactly my point, that airbags, whilst they do a good job in a large percentage of incidents can also be prohibitive to their main aim, protecting driver/passengers. The five-point would obviously be one solution that already exists but it doesn't solve all the issues.
One problem is still how to you safely harness a baby into a car? Would a five-point really be practical in this instance?
I think the idea with the 'smart' systems is that the various sensors in and around the car will determine the 'type' of impact (location, vehicle speed, force, position and number of occupants, etc) and only fire the bags necessary.
Therefore it could be possible that the side curtain and thorax (sp?) bags might get deployed (and not the steering wheel) leaving you with visibilty should the vehicle still be drivable.
The main driver for these systems is that first generation air bags were designed and calibrated based on average person in average driving position. They was no manipulated 'delay' in the airbag deployment, therefore the risk for a small / short person (sitting closer to the steering wheel) is that their head would make contact with the bag whilst it was still expanding (not good!). The ideal case is that the head should make contact with the bag just after full deployment.
To help the airbag situation, pretensioners on the seat belt and inertia reels have been introduced.
But all of these clever systems might not help if people continue to drive with their chin 10cm off the steering wheel!
Therefore it could be possible that the side curtain and thorax (sp?) bags might get deployed (and not the steering wheel) leaving you with visibilty should the vehicle still be drivable.
The main driver for these systems is that first generation air bags were designed and calibrated based on average person in average driving position. They was no manipulated 'delay' in the airbag deployment, therefore the risk for a small / short person (sitting closer to the steering wheel) is that their head would make contact with the bag whilst it was still expanding (not good!). The ideal case is that the head should make contact with the bag just after full deployment.
To help the airbag situation, pretensioners on the seat belt and inertia reels have been introduced.
But all of these clever systems might not help if people continue to drive with their chin 10cm off the steering wheel!
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...One problem is still how to you safely harness a baby into a car? Would a five-point really be practical in this instance?
Look at a baby seat - does it have:
a: tiny little airbags?
b: tiny little five point harness?
...and another thing - you can attach belts to the seat frame (Merc already do this in the cars without B pillar and I'm sure loads of other OEMs do too) so fitting harnesses to 5/7 seat cars/vans is no problem.
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Ummmmm nope - clipped a kerb in mine and two of the three airbags went offJeez! That doesn't sound right
Thought someone had come thru the drivers door when they went off........ cabin filled with smoke and I couldn't see where I was going.
The initial impact was enuff to crack the front alloy, but its lasted 40k since then, so it says a lot about the strength of BM alloys. And I've been quoted circa £700 to get them replaced - thats a door bag and sidescreen bag. Ouch!
As for 4/5 points fitted to front seats - surely you'd have too much leverage to attach the top straps to the top of a front seat... - the lower hinges would have to be massive to guarantee that the top of the seat didn't deflect during impact with that load at that distance. Correct me if I'm wrong......
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