Simply the best ?
Discussion
Came across this image the other day and it got me thinking.
I suppose it must be a FIAT publicity shot from about 1970 (?) for the German-speaking markets, probably taken on the roof-top test track at Lingotto (the German loosely translates as "Whatever size you want, whatever level of performance").
I was really struck by the broad range of cars that FIAT was selling at this time. As Michael Sedgwick put it slightly later (in his 1974 history of the company):-
"To-day FIAT offers everything from minimal town transport (the 500) up to the 130, a luxurious executive sedan with automatic transmission. Sports cars, long a half-hearted if interesting sideline, are now a regular item in a programme which embraces high-performance "personal" versions of the 124, 128 and 130, not to mention the ferocious "Dino", almost a Ferrari". He could also have added the 850 Coupé and Spider (on the way out at that point) and the X1/9 (on the way in).
I couldn't think of another single manufacturer which, at a particular point in time, has offered such a comprehensive range of interesting cars at such accessible prices. My impression is that at that time pretty much all their output was highly rated when compared with the competition. Generally the cars were well-designed (sometimes incorporating Bertone or Pininfarina styling), well-engineered and for the most part incorporated what someone once referred to as "sport engineering".
You could say that British Leyland had an equally broad and interesting product offering in 1970, but that was lots of different companies lumped together. If you go down that road of course, by then FIAT had taken on Lancia and Ferrari.
Looking at individual companies, some of the German manufacturers nowadays have very full ranges with all sorts of variations on a theme, but not sure you could say that any one of them covered the "minimal town transport" end of the spectrum for example.
Any advance on FIAT circa 1970 ?
I suppose it must be a FIAT publicity shot from about 1970 (?) for the German-speaking markets, probably taken on the roof-top test track at Lingotto (the German loosely translates as "Whatever size you want, whatever level of performance").
I was really struck by the broad range of cars that FIAT was selling at this time. As Michael Sedgwick put it slightly later (in his 1974 history of the company):-
"To-day FIAT offers everything from minimal town transport (the 500) up to the 130, a luxurious executive sedan with automatic transmission. Sports cars, long a half-hearted if interesting sideline, are now a regular item in a programme which embraces high-performance "personal" versions of the 124, 128 and 130, not to mention the ferocious "Dino", almost a Ferrari". He could also have added the 850 Coupé and Spider (on the way out at that point) and the X1/9 (on the way in).
I couldn't think of another single manufacturer which, at a particular point in time, has offered such a comprehensive range of interesting cars at such accessible prices. My impression is that at that time pretty much all their output was highly rated when compared with the competition. Generally the cars were well-designed (sometimes incorporating Bertone or Pininfarina styling), well-engineered and for the most part incorporated what someone once referred to as "sport engineering".
You could say that British Leyland had an equally broad and interesting product offering in 1970, but that was lots of different companies lumped together. If you go down that road of course, by then FIAT had taken on Lancia and Ferrari.
Looking at individual companies, some of the German manufacturers nowadays have very full ranges with all sorts of variations on a theme, but not sure you could say that any one of them covered the "minimal town transport" end of the spectrum for example.
Any advance on FIAT circa 1970 ?
Interesting and good post. 
I suppose given the range and diversity Citroen had in about 1974 has to be up there too.
A range starting with the 2CV and Dyane (Mehari if you have the weather).
Small family cars and estates Ami and GS (Car of the Year in 1971).
Bigger family/executive/estates -DS
Glamorous sports/GT - SM
One to think more about as the day goes on.
I suppose given the range and diversity Citroen had in about 1974 has to be up there too.
A range starting with the 2CV and Dyane (Mehari if you have the weather).
Small family cars and estates Ami and GS (Car of the Year in 1971).
Bigger family/executive/estates -DS
Glamorous sports/GT - SM
One to think more about as the day goes on.
Comparison with BL is interesting, but when it came to sporty cars Fiat was well ahead- BL's offerings were all getting a bit old at that point. (I'll make an exceoption for an E Type- old but still wonderful) . Obvious comparison: Fiat 124 Coupe (front of photo) v MGBGT.
I have owned and loved both, but seen as a new car rather than a classic it's hard to see any point on which the MG wins. Perhaps cheaper.
Actually- MG wins on longevity. I had my 124 Coupe in 1979-81- it was 8 years old when I got it, and it was a question of where it wasn't rusty, not where it was.I think the boot lid was OK. It would have been beyond restoration then, short of new bodyshell.. Makes me very suspicious of ones for sale now!
I have owned and loved both, but seen as a new car rather than a classic it's hard to see any point on which the MG wins. Perhaps cheaper.
Actually- MG wins on longevity. I had my 124 Coupe in 1979-81- it was 8 years old when I got it, and it was a question of where it wasn't rusty, not where it was.I think the boot lid was OK. It would have been beyond restoration then, short of new bodyshell.. Makes me very suspicious of ones for sale now!
vixen1700 said:
Interesting and good post.
I suppose given the range and diversity Citroen had in about 1974 has to be up there too.
A range starting with the 2CV and Dyane (Mehari if you have the weather).
Small family cars and estates Ami and GS (Car of the Year in 1971).
Bigger family/executive/estates -DS
Glamorous sports/GT - SM
One to think more about as the day goes on.
True. Hadn't thought of Citroen (maybe because of the relative lack of sportscars) but going from a 2CV to an SM really is a wide range and they made some wonderful cars at that time (in fact would love to have a 1978 GS Pallas in silver but imagine they are all long gone by now...) I suppose given the range and diversity Citroen had in about 1974 has to be up there too.
A range starting with the 2CV and Dyane (Mehari if you have the weather).
Small family cars and estates Ami and GS (Car of the Year in 1971).
Bigger family/executive/estates -DS
Glamorous sports/GT - SM
One to think more about as the day goes on.
Perhaps the Car of the Year award was more highly regarded in those days and of course FIAT won it (with the 128 and the 127) just before and just after the Citroen GS, plus the 124 won a few years before.
Renault, perhaps?
Around that time you had the 4 & 6 small hatchbacks, 8 / 10 rear-engined saloons, 12 saloon & estate, 16 (pioneering family hatchback), 15 / 17 coupes, commercials and by extension Alpine the A110 which was to become something of a rally legend.
Soon to come was the 5 and 20 / 30 large hatchbacks.
Probably not quite a broad a range as Fiat, but most bases covered.
Around that time you had the 4 & 6 small hatchbacks, 8 / 10 rear-engined saloons, 12 saloon & estate, 16 (pioneering family hatchback), 15 / 17 coupes, commercials and by extension Alpine the A110 which was to become something of a rally legend.
Soon to come was the 5 and 20 / 30 large hatchbacks.
Probably not quite a broad a range as Fiat, but most bases covered.
Thanks for posting those Fiat photos - the 2nd one even includes a couple of Fiat Dinos so a very diverse range!
I was a proper Fiat fan in my teens back in the 70s and ended up with a Fiat 125 as my 2nd car. It was so technically advanced compared to my mates' Cortinas, etc. with it's twin-cam engine with an alloy head and 4 wheel disc brakes.
I was a proper Fiat fan in my teens back in the 70s and ended up with a Fiat 125 as my 2nd car. It was so technically advanced compared to my mates' Cortinas, etc. with it's twin-cam engine with an alloy head and 4 wheel disc brakes.
DaveTheRave87 said:
Audi?
A1 covers the city car and you've got the A3-8 range of hatchbacks, saloons and convertibles, as well as a range of SUVs. All with a selection of fuel types and electrification options.
The TT provides the small sporty(ish) car and the R8 covers the supercar base.
You could say the same of Mercedes and (in particular) BMW too, but the Original Poster says, "...a comprehensive range of interesting cars at such accessible prices..." so you lose. So there.A1 covers the city car and you've got the A3-8 range of hatchbacks, saloons and convertibles, as well as a range of SUVs. All with a selection of fuel types and electrification options.
The TT provides the small sporty(ish) car and the R8 covers the supercar base.
Pantechnicon said:
Do they only have 3 different models on sale today.? 500, Qubo,and tipo. Back in the day had I had x19, supermiarfiori and a 127 1050 cl all very good when relatively new
Pretty sad really! My Mum's 1st car was a 1967 Fiat 600 and then my Dad got a Fiat 125 in 1972. A year or so later Mum's 600 got replaced by a 1971 Fiat 127 - the first car I drove after I passed my driving test! I loved it.
But then in 1975 Dad suffered a cerebral haemorrhage and couldn't even stand up unaided, let alone drive.
So Mum swapped her 127 for a 128 1300 estate because it worked better for his wheel-chair (early 127s weren't hatchbacks). Which didn't drive nearly as well as the 127.
But that is how in 1977 my 2nd car ended up being Dad's, because by then it was pretty obvious he wouldn't recover.
In 1978 Mum decided she was going to replace her 128 Estate and went to a local Fiat dealer to test drive their bright orange 127 1050 Sport and a 128 3P that was a few hundred dearer. I loved them both, but then I think my influence was probably the main reason she tried them!
Anyway she ended up paying even more for a new Fiesta 1.1S.
But from those visits to the dealership for test drives I remember seeing the Mirafioris, X1/9s and 132s in the showroom.
It's been a long time since Fiat made anything that would make me want to visit a dealer, although I quite like the normal 500 - but not the lumpy, lardy versions like the 500L.
Its a really interesting question.
I know that Audi have been mentioned but I think the modern VW group has to be close. I agree, that some of this is from acquisitions, such as was mentioned earlier and dismissed with BL, but the modern VW range is huge.
There are small cheap cars, electric cars, SUVs, sallons, estates, large saloons, people carriers, commercial vehicles with each genre in a huge range of sizes. Most of them are available with a huge range of drive trains and specification / trim levels. If you count Audi it goes up to full on luxury saloons and mid-engined supercars. If you count SEAT, Skoda etc then there are even more variations on a theme.
So while Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini might, at least in part, be due to acquisition of other firms (though now pretty integrated, with common bodies and major engine components), I think the size of the core VW/Audi product range is pretty stunning.
And that's the European / North American stuff. Factor in the "glocalisation" and the regional specific models for China and South America and it gets even more!
I know that Audi have been mentioned but I think the modern VW group has to be close. I agree, that some of this is from acquisitions, such as was mentioned earlier and dismissed with BL, but the modern VW range is huge.
There are small cheap cars, electric cars, SUVs, sallons, estates, large saloons, people carriers, commercial vehicles with each genre in a huge range of sizes. Most of them are available with a huge range of drive trains and specification / trim levels. If you count Audi it goes up to full on luxury saloons and mid-engined supercars. If you count SEAT, Skoda etc then there are even more variations on a theme.
So while Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini might, at least in part, be due to acquisition of other firms (though now pretty integrated, with common bodies and major engine components), I think the size of the core VW/Audi product range is pretty stunning.
And that's the European / North American stuff. Factor in the "glocalisation" and the regional specific models for China and South America and it gets even more!
)Pericoloso said:
Only just seen this ,I do like a pic of old FIATs.
Second one has at least 2 128 coupes in foreground ,saw them in period and really like them ,now almost extinct.....
I thought you would! Second one has at least 2 128 coupes in foreground ,saw them in period and really like them ,now almost extinct.....
Back in the early 80s my then girlfriend's best mate had a 128 Coupe and drove it like she stole it - great little cars.
There is a monthly Classic Car meet at the Black Swan pub in Ockham on the 2nd Sunday of the month (so next one will be on 8 March) and I think you are fairly local.
Anyway, just for Italian car fans here's a photo of one I saw there in December - it's actually a manual as well!
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