Fiat Panda. Turns over but wont start

[smiley_boy2501]

I've got a bit of a head scratching issue.

Bought a 2006 Fiat Panda 1.2 8v for £200 to learn a bit of spannering on.

Everything came apart including head off. All back together with no significant issues except for losing my timing marks on the crank (there's no oem ones) . I got No1 piston to tdc and then lined it up with the mark I had made on the camshaft.

However the car turns over fine but won't start.
I've checked compression with a cheap ebay special and all 4 cylinders have 90ish psi.
All 4 spark plugs are wet with fuel after cranking.
I've changed the spark plugs and used a spark plug tester which lights up beautifully.
I've adjusted the timing in case I was 180 degrees out.
I've checked and cleaned every connector and earth I can find.

There are no engine codes on obd2.

The car was very cheap so I wouldn't waste money on diagnostics as I'd never get the returns but its annoying the hell out of me.

Any ideas?

[Oldandslow]

Timing seems the obvious. I'd suggest a timing light but from your description not sure if you can rely on the crank mark. (Finding true TDC accurately by making a hard stop to go in the plug hole, set it just below TDC height, wind one way until it hits, make mark at reference, wind the other way until it hits, make a mark at the reference, true TDC is halfway between them, see youtube)

How does it adjust, coil pack or old school dizzy? If dizzy tweak it a hair each way and try again.

Plug lead order?

Edited by Oldandslow on Sunday 16th February 12:41

[InitialDave]

90psi compression sounds very low.

Did you squirt a small amount of oil into the cylinders? Did it change the result?

[PositronicRay]

Try the cam belt, could be 180 out. (had this on a pinto once)

[Megaflow]

Was it running when you got it?

Why has 5e head been taken off?

[Andyspro]

Sounds like your starter motors packed in, hence why it won't start.

[Auntieroll]

PositronicRay said:

Try the cam belt, could be 180 out. (had this on a pinto once)

What he says , sounds like the sparks are occurring 180' out ,if there is a spark at the right time and fuel it should run ,even though the cylinder pressures are rather low.

[PositronicRay]

Auntieroll said:

PositronicRay said:

Try the cam belt, could be 180 out. (had this on a pinto once)

What he says , sounds like the sparks are occurring 180' out ,if there is a spark at the right time and fuel it should run ,even though the cylinder pressures are rather low.

I discovered the fault, trying to manually choke the car with my hand. It was blowing rather than sucking.

A used engine purchased from a scrappy as a "runner"

[E-bmw]

Andyspro said:

Sounds like your starter motors packed in, hence why it won't start.

He said it turns over mate.

[smiley_boy2501]

Megaflow said:

Was it running when you got it?

Why has 5e head been taken off?

Car was running fine when I got it. Has done 140,000 miles but seemed alright on the drive home.

Fairly sure the leads are in the correct position. It's coil packs not distritbutor.

I took the head off just to take a head off. No real reason. Something to learn.
I didn't remove the pistons from the block or take the valves/camshaft out though.

I've checked the timing again its now correct as far is can tell manually. Fairly sure it was correct anyway. Good learning experience as well.

Anywho next I'll recheck the compression and dash some oil in to see if that makes a difference.

It cost very little and its a hobby so if it doesn't ever run again its sad but I won't be too bothered.

It's going to be a practice car for da polishing anyway (for me)

[Megaflow]

smiley_boy2501 said:

Car was running fine when I got it. Has done 140,000 miles but seemed alright on the drive home.

Fairly sure the leads are in the correct position. It's coil packs not distritbutor.

I took the head off just to take a head off. No real reason. Something to learn.
I didn't remove the pistons from the block or take the valves/camshaft out though.

I've checked the timing again its now correct as far is can tell manually. Fairly sure it was correct anyway. Good learning experience as well.

Anywho next I'll recheck the compression and dash some oil in to see if that makes a difference.

It cost very little and its a hobby so if it doesn't ever run again its sad but I won't be too bothered.

It's going to be a practice car for da polishing anyway (for me)

With problems like this I’d always go looking at the last work done since it was running, because coincidences are actually pretty rare.

On that basis, and given what seems to be a low compression number and the admission you struggled to get the timing lined up, because there is no TDC mark, I’ve got a pint on the timing not being correct.

Hopefully not far enough out to have done any damage.

[InitialDave]

Megaflow said:

Hopefully not far enough out to have done any damage.

I believe the 8v FIREs are all non-interference (16v may be also, not sure), so shouldn't be possible to permanently hurt it even with comedically atrocious timing.

[Chris32345]

InitialDave said:

I believe the 8v FIREs are all non-interference (16v may be also, not sure), so shouldn't be possible to permanently hurt it even with comedically atrocious timing.

16v engines from euro 5 spec onwards due to the vvt changes

[smiley_boy2501]

So had a bit more time to work on this.

Compression is still around 90psi per cylinder. I checked again after a teaspoon of oil and it went up to 120-130 on every cylinder.

Timing looks correct now as far as I can tell. Definately on compression stroke so not 180 out. Possibly one tooth out on camshaft at worst.

So this is piston rings presumably? If so she's scrap unfortunately. After I've practised my polishing. I've learnt a hell of a lot regardless.

Edited to add

If the above is the case then what did I likely do wrong when taking the engine apart? It was running before. Learning points for next time.

Also is it not a bit weird that all 4 sets of piston rings are worn? Sorry to ask loads of questions.

Edited by smiley_boy2501 on Thursday 20th February 10:42

[Megaflow]

It is not the piston rings. It is almost certainly something you did because it was running.

If you have rechecked the timing and it looks ok, then the next thing to do is to go around and check everything you touched during the work and for example make sure everything is put back correctly.

If you have forgotten to connect the coil for example, it won’t start.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

blow some easy start into the intake whilst cranking over and see if that makes any difference.

[Arnold Cunningham]

90psi isn't great, but it should run.
Almost certainly one of the things the chaps have listed above.

If plugs are coming up wet, and it has compression, then it kinda has to be an ignition issue. I guess it could still be a fair bit out of time on the cam, but I'd expect it it'd do "something" even with the cam a fair way off - even if only coughing & spluttering.

[mickyh7]

Two twin coil packs on these.
The wife had one, only ever broke down twice.
Both times it was a coil pack. Ran really bad, but when stopped, would not start again.
She was quoted £300 fitted at the Fiat dealer.
I payed about £30 from Europarts, 10 minutes to fit !

[littleredrooster]

Although it's not strictly relevant to the non-starting, you did remember to hold the throttle wide open when you were cranking it for the compression test, didn't you...and let it do 2 or 3 revolutions?

How did you re-time the cam after the head went back on? I'll go along with it either being cam or ignition timing which is out. (I know you said lining it up with 'my mark', more detail please?)

Edited by littleredrooster on Sunday 29th March 12:01