Holden to be scrapped
Discussion
PartsMonkey said:
I see they're pointing at the RHD market among their basket of excuses.Will the inevitable move to BEV in the short term reduce the on-cost of manufacturing LH- and RH- drives side by side on the line? It seems to me that it must, but I'm no automotive engineer. The last time I made vehicles was Mk.1 transits at Swaythling.
hutchst said:
PartsMonkey said:
I see they're pointing at the RHD market among their basket of excuses.Will the inevitable move to BEV in the short term reduce the on-cost of manufacturing LH- and RH- drives side by side on the line? It seems to me that it must, but I'm no automotive engineer. The last time I made vehicles was Mk.1 transits at Swaythling.
BBC Article said:
The American car giant said it will wind down Holden sales, design and engineering operations in Australia and New Zealand by next year
I'm surprised they still had design and engineering operations in Aus/NZ tbh. Sales I'm a bit surprised they'd close down, but then maybe customers aren't really buying the cars? A quick Google seems to suggest they were outside the top 10 at the tail end of last year in Australia. 5th in NZ but 6% share of the market - which, let's face it, isn't going to be huge in NZ (or Aus!).I had cause to hire a car the year before last and got lumbered with a Vauxhall Corsa. Ghastly car with the worst engine I've ever had the misfortune to have to operate (and I include in that the twin in my lawn tractor and the engine on my Stihl. Both of which had significantly better NVH characteristics). If that car was representative of the quality of their cars generally (and looking at UK offerings, they hardly set the pulse racing! Don't they call one of their cars the Grandad?
), the mgmt of GM would be far better served going into a different industry and/or closing down all their car operations globally.As for BEV, I'm not sure why a move to that power source would make LH/RH production materially any different. It may be easier to package cars so that actually having LH and RH is easier from a design perspective. But you're still having to make different parts, go through type approvals etc. However GM can use what ever excuses they want, but if you make s
t product that nobody wants to buy, you're in trouble.Murph7355 said:
I'm surprised they still had design and engineering operations in Aus/NZ tbh. Sales I'm a bit surprised they'd close down, but then maybe customers aren't really buying the cars? A quick Google seems to suggest they were outside the top 10 at the tail end of last year in Australia. 5th in NZ but 6% share of the market - which, let's face it, isn't going to be huge in NZ (or Aus!).
I had cause to hire a car the year before last and got lumbered with a Vauxhall Corsa. Ghastly car with the worst engine I've ever had the misfortune to have to operate (and I include in that the twin in my lawn tractor and the engine on my Stihl. Both of which had significantly better NVH characteristics). If that car was representative of the quality of their cars generally (and looking at UK offerings, they hardly set the pulse racing! Don't they call one of their cars the Grandad?), the mgmt of GM would be far better served going into a different industry and/or closing down all their car operations globally.
As for BEV, I'm not sure why a move to that power source would make LH/RH production materially any different. It may be easier to package cars so that actually having LH and RH is easier from a design perspective. But you're still having to make different parts, go through type approvals etc. However GM can use what ever excuses they want, but if you make st product that nobody wants to buy, you're in trouble.
I don't see the power source as the issue, it's the controls. Aren't they all just variations of electric switches. Potentiometers for throttle and braking, electric handbrake, electric steering, no gearbox. Same parts just bolted on in a slightly different position? Do they have hydraulics?I had cause to hire a car the year before last and got lumbered with a Vauxhall Corsa. Ghastly car with the worst engine I've ever had the misfortune to have to operate (and I include in that the twin in my lawn tractor and the engine on my Stihl. Both of which had significantly better NVH characteristics). If that car was representative of the quality of their cars generally (and looking at UK offerings, they hardly set the pulse racing! Don't they call one of their cars the Grandad?
), the mgmt of GM would be far better served going into a different industry and/or closing down all their car operations globally.As for BEV, I'm not sure why a move to that power source would make LH/RH production materially any different. It may be easier to package cars so that actually having LH and RH is easier from a design perspective. But you're still having to make different parts, go through type approvals etc. However GM can use what ever excuses they want, but if you make s
t product that nobody wants to buy, you're in trouble.hutchst said:
Murph7355 said:
I'm surprised they still had design and engineering operations in Aus/NZ tbh. Sales I'm a bit surprised they'd close down, but then maybe customers aren't really buying the cars? A quick Google seems to suggest they were outside the top 10 at the tail end of last year in Australia. 5th in NZ but 6% share of the market - which, let's face it, isn't going to be huge in NZ (or Aus!).
I had cause to hire a car the year before last and got lumbered with a Vauxhall Corsa. Ghastly car with the worst engine I've ever had the misfortune to have to operate (and I include in that the twin in my lawn tractor and the engine on my Stihl. Both of which had significantly better NVH characteristics). If that car was representative of the quality of their cars generally (and looking at UK offerings, they hardly set the pulse racing! Don't they call one of their cars the Grandad?), the mgmt of GM would be far better served going into a different industry and/or closing down all their car operations globally.
As for BEV, I'm not sure why a move to that power source would make LH/RH production materially any different. It may be easier to package cars so that actually having LH and RH is easier from a design perspective. But you're still having to make different parts, go through type approvals etc. However GM can use what ever excuses they want, but if you make st product that nobody wants to buy, you're in trouble.
I don't see the power source as the issue, it's the controls. Aren't they all just variations of electric switches. Potentiometers for throttle and braking, electric handbrake, electric steering, no gearbox. Same parts just bolted on in a slightly different position? Do they have hydraulics?I had cause to hire a car the year before last and got lumbered with a Vauxhall Corsa. Ghastly car with the worst engine I've ever had the misfortune to have to operate (and I include in that the twin in my lawn tractor and the engine on my Stihl. Both of which had significantly better NVH characteristics). If that car was representative of the quality of their cars generally (and looking at UK offerings, they hardly set the pulse racing! Don't they call one of their cars the Grandad?
), the mgmt of GM would be far better served going into a different industry and/or closing down all their car operations globally.As for BEV, I'm not sure why a move to that power source would make LH/RH production materially any different. It may be easier to package cars so that actually having LH and RH is easier from a design perspective. But you're still having to make different parts, go through type approvals etc. However GM can use what ever excuses they want, but if you make s
t product that nobody wants to buy, you're in trouble.hutchst said:
I don't see the power source as the issue, it's the controls. Aren't they all just variations of electric switches. Potentiometers for throttle and braking, electric handbrake, electric steering, no gearbox. Same parts just bolted on in a slightly different position? Do they have hydraulics?
They may well do...but unless a car is perfectly symmetrical I struggle to see where the serious benefit would be. And even then, I doubt you'd really save that much as there are all manner of other aspects to consider.Yes, BEVs have hydraulics.
I think it would be possible to engineer an ICE car such that a LHD was a perfect mirror of a RHD, and hence to make some elements of construction etc simpler. I suspect it already happens to the extent its feasible/viable.
Holden's range seems to be a mix of rebadged Chevrolet SUVs and Vauxhall/Opel. So at the moment they are presumably buying in a fair proportion from PSA.
Holden have relied on adapted European models to fill out their range for some time so I suppose once Opel was sold it was only a matter of time.
Holden have relied on adapted European models to fill out their range for some time so I suppose once Opel was sold it was only a matter of time.
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