French and Italian cars = reliability?
Discussion
In this day and age, you'll get no better or worse from any manufacturer nationality.
It's largely just historical, with a huge dollop of ingrained xenophobia.
If a Fiat or Alfa requires a maintenance piece, or suffers a breakdown, it's perceived as a catastrophic reflection of their poor quality. Same thing happens with a VAG, and it's tolerated as a freak occurrence part of the ownership pleasure.
Look at the recent models of Merc, VW, Nissan etc, and you'll quickly see that beyond the badge and some interior tinsel, the vehicles are pretty crap
It's largely just historical, with a huge dollop of ingrained xenophobia.
If a Fiat or Alfa requires a maintenance piece, or suffers a breakdown, it's perceived as a catastrophic reflection of their poor quality. Same thing happens with a VAG, and it's tolerated as a freak occurrence part of the ownership pleasure.
Look at the recent models of Merc, VW, Nissan etc, and you'll quickly see that beyond the badge and some interior tinsel, the vehicles are pretty crap
I don't know exactly how good the JD Power surveys are, but they often get mentioned.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/20...
This shows Peugeot as the most dependable brand in 2019!
Renault and Citroen are just below industry average, but comparable with Toyota, Mazda etc.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/20...
This shows Peugeot as the most dependable brand in 2019!
Renault and Citroen are just below industry average, but comparable with Toyota, Mazda etc.
Paul_M3 said:
I don't know exactly how good the JD Power surveys are, but they often get mentioned.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/20...
This shows Peugeot as the most dependable brand in 2019!
Renault and Citroen are just below industry average, but comparable with Toyota, Mazda etc.
Wow, BMW least reliable! I would have thought they would have been near the top!https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/20...
This shows Peugeot as the most dependable brand in 2019!
Renault and Citroen are just below industry average, but comparable with Toyota, Mazda etc.
k6chris said:
Wow, BMW least reliable! I would have thought they would have been near the top!
I do wonder if part of this is people having different expectations of the cars?i.e. My girlfriends mum has a Dacia, and it makes a squeaking noise. She's not bothered and ignores it.
Someone who's bought a BMW with the same problem would probably book it back in to have the 'fault' rectified.
Both cars would have had the same problem, only one would show up on the JD Power survey as 'unreliable'.
A work colleague had his Honda Civic broken down and left stranded last week.
I cant think of anything worse than buying a car just for reliability and then it proving not to be reliable.
You'll find most smaller French and Italian cars are actually quite hardy underneath a slightly flimsy interior.
If you're really that worried look at a Toyota, buy believe it or not they're not infallible.
I cant think of anything worse than buying a car just for reliability and then it proving not to be reliable.
You'll find most smaller French and Italian cars are actually quite hardy underneath a slightly flimsy interior.
If you're really that worried look at a Toyota, buy believe it or not they're not infallible.
Have had small Fiats (Cinquecento, Panda, Punto, 500) in the family for 25 years. Rarely newer than 5 years old. They are reliable.
Perhaps a bit more likely to get the occasional loose sun visor or dodgy button, but that's about it. These cars are built tough - many of them cope with minimal maintenance in hot, rural southern Europe. Panda is still Italy's best-selling car!
Perhaps a bit more likely to get the occasional loose sun visor or dodgy button, but that's about it. These cars are built tough - many of them cope with minimal maintenance in hot, rural southern Europe. Panda is still Italy's best-selling car!
I’m running a 306 cabriolet which is french but built by pinafarina Italian . Built on the opposite side of the Ferrari line at the time .
Only real trouble I’ve had is electric windows regulator breaking and needed a new coil, and just replaced the rear beam had car for 15 years and is now 20 years old
Only real trouble I’ve had is electric windows regulator breaking and needed a new coil, and just replaced the rear beam had car for 15 years and is now 20 years old
If you're looking for a budget shed, or to run the car for a long time, then look at all the >15 year old small cars you see still tooling around and think about how many have survived versus how many were sold in the first place. When was the last time you saw a Mk1 or Mk2 Punto? Where did all the Alfa 147s go? Roads are full of old Peugeots though!
If you really want ballache free reliable motoring nothing is absolutely certain, but you can stack the odds in your favour by buying a Toyota or Honda!
As others have said, avoid anything German if you don't like big bills for stupid crap once it gets over 6 years old.
If you really want ballache free reliable motoring nothing is absolutely certain, but you can stack the odds in your favour by buying a Toyota or Honda!
As others have said, avoid anything German if you don't like big bills for stupid crap once it gets over 6 years old.
Total myth, pretty much always has been too. The incidence of failures in modern cars is pretty much correlated with complexity which is why a little NA petrol hatch will probably be mostly faultless from any manufacturer whereas a big SUV with electronically controlled air suspension, twin turbochargers and associated plumbing, DPF, urea injection, automatic transmission, electronically actuated transfer box, 3 differentials, 2 propshafts, 4 driveshafts, electric sunroof, electric interior everything etc will have more failures as there's just so much more to go wrong.
Certain manufacturers do seem to suffer from more major mechanical issues (timing chains etc) but I think it's no coincidence they also promote extended service intervals of nearly 20k (BMW and Audi for example). Change the oil regularly and these issues usually don't occur.
Certain manufacturers do seem to suffer from more major mechanical issues (timing chains etc) but I think it's no coincidence they also promote extended service intervals of nearly 20k (BMW and Audi for example). Change the oil regularly and these issues usually don't occur.
Earthdweller said:
Urban myth 
I’ve had ..
Fiat 127... a little iffy
Punto 55.. faultless
Punto 85SX.. faultless
Fiat 500 .. faultless
Renault 5 .. a little iffy
Ren Clio ... faultless
However also had a Passat .. total heap of s
te and a Golf which left me stranded twice on motorways
I can relate to this with my experiences.I’ve had ..
Fiat 127... a little iffy
Punto 55.. faultless
Punto 85SX.. faultless
Fiat 500 .. faultless
Renault 5 .. a little iffy
Ren Clio ... faultless
However also had a Passat .. total heap of s
te and a Golf which left me stranded twice on motorways Fiat Cinquecento Sporting (new)... very reliable, nothing broke.
Fiat Punto Sporting (new). Only the indicators packed up during first 4 years.
Peugeot 205 GTI1.9 (13 years old when purchased- owned for 11 years), only broke down once in 11 years. Never had an electrical issue!
Audi A3 (new).. Went through various sensors and a DMF within first 6 months!
VW Passat. Numerous trips to garage to fix various EML issues and the dreaded oil sludge issue.
Merc C430.. Admittedly old, but the only to leave me stranded in past 30 years!
If you want a reliable car, you're as well off buying an old Ford Focus as a Honda Civic or Toyota. Top 10 in the Warranty Direct index and cheap parts when it does fail. That's what I am on now, but I did like my Fiats and our old 205.
mat205125 said:
In this day and age, you'll get no better or worse from any manufacturer nationality.
It's largely just historical, with a huge dollop of ingrained xenophobia.
If a Fiat or Alfa requires a maintenance piece, or suffers a breakdown, it's perceived as a catastrophic reflection of their poor quality. Same thing happens with a VAG, and it's tolerated as a freak occurrence part of the ownership pleasure.
Look at the recent models of Merc, VW, Nissan etc, and you'll quickly see that beyond the badge and some interior tinsel, the vehicles are pretty crap
Totally agree, look at all the issues with VAG cars burning oil or BMW's stretching their timing chains yet you still hear people talking about "German build quality" and "German reliability". It's all a myth, the cars have a thin veneer of quality on the interior and the parts you touch, yet the oily bits are probably or poorer quality than from the majority of mainstream manufacturers.It's largely just historical, with a huge dollop of ingrained xenophobia.
If a Fiat or Alfa requires a maintenance piece, or suffers a breakdown, it's perceived as a catastrophic reflection of their poor quality. Same thing happens with a VAG, and it's tolerated as a freak occurrence part of the ownership pleasure.
Look at the recent models of Merc, VW, Nissan etc, and you'll quickly see that beyond the badge and some interior tinsel, the vehicles are pretty crap
I run a Renault Megane from 2007 and it has been faultless, yes it feels a bit cheap and rattly but I have never had a problem with it. In contrast, the Audis I have had may have looked and felt very nice to sit in, but all of them had annoying problem after annoying problem.
Yes, around 2000 Renault lost their way and their cars were filled with cheap electronics that went wrong, but today they build cars that are every bit as reliable as their rivals.
Mercedes even put Renault engines in their A class so they can't be that bad?
k6chris said:
Looking to buy a smallish car, but hearing lots of scare stories about how unreliable things like Fiat Pandas or Citroen whatevas are. How true is this in reality or is it just an urban myth??
Are you looking to buy new or used?If new: buy what you like and feel comfortable with owning and paying for. Don't be fooled by the badge on the front.
If used: buy on condition within your budget. A near-new / cherished low mileage car from a non-premium brand is preferable to a clapped-out, high mileage premium brand one for the same money.
Customer service expectations are so high nowadays that nobody can afford to make a "bad" car any more, They only tend to be unreliable when not properly looked after.
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