Warbird Workshop TV program
Discussion
Documentary No. 353 on the Spitfire (probably).
The split pea experiment is mentioned in this excellent BBC documentary from 1976.
I don't think this particular Spitfire doc will ever be bettered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-lYGvBH4I
The split pea experiment is mentioned in this excellent BBC documentary from 1976.
I don't think this particular Spitfire doc will ever be bettered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-lYGvBH4I
Know what you mean about spitfires. I think the Wessex helicopter that has recently returned to flight features in one of the episodes which could be really interesting.
At least Guy Martin isn’t in it, his programs mainly seem to be the narrator explaining how amazing Guy is and how tough a job he has to do, gets a bit much.
At least Guy Martin isn’t in it, his programs mainly seem to be the narrator explaining how amazing Guy is and how tough a job he has to do, gets a bit much.
lufbramatt said:
Know what you mean about spitfires. I think the Wessex helicopter that has recently returned to flight features in one of the episodes which could be really interesting.
Yep, am looking forward to that one as well.One of the episodes features a L39, which is a bit lame........
Shame they couldn't have popped over to Temora in Aus to feature maintaining Winston, or to Collings in USA about the challenges of keeping the world's only airworthy civilian operated F-4 Phantom in the air......or the AALO for an in depth feature on their 20+ year project to get XS422 back in the air.
aeropilot said:
Yep, am looking forward to that one as well.
One of the episodes features a L39, which is a bit lame........
Shame they couldn't have popped over to Temora in Aus to feature maintaining Winston, or to Collings in USA about the challenges of keeping the world's only airworthy civilian operated F-4 Phantom in the air......or the AALO for an in depth feature on their 20+ year project to get XS422 back in the air.
ANd I'm off to Google to see what most of that meant... One of the episodes features a L39, which is a bit lame........
Shame they couldn't have popped over to Temora in Aus to feature maintaining Winston, or to Collings in USA about the challenges of keeping the world's only airworthy civilian operated F-4 Phantom in the air......or the AALO for an in depth feature on their 20+ year project to get XS422 back in the air.
Eric Mc said:
Indeed.
And all the other aircraft used by the RAF in that summer of 1940 and all which helped - the Blenheim, the Wellington, the Defiant - even the Gladiator amongst other less feted types.
And Fairey Battle. But most of them were easy meat against an experienced Luftwaffe, unfortunately.And all the other aircraft used by the RAF in that summer of 1940 and all which helped - the Blenheim, the Wellington, the Defiant - even the Gladiator amongst other less feted types.
I'm not sure how intensely the Battles were used as bombers after the Fall of France. Blenheims, Whitleys, Hampdens and Wellingtons were used extensively against the invasion barges and the French ports in which they were being assembled.
Blenheims, Defiants and also early Beaufighters were used from the Autumn on as night fighters once the Luftwaffe switched to night bombing.
Hardly any of this gets mentioned in any documentaries about the Battle of Britain.
Blenheims, Defiants and also early Beaufighters were used from the Autumn on as night fighters once the Luftwaffe switched to night bombing.
Hardly any of this gets mentioned in any documentaries about the Battle of Britain.
Eric Mc said:
I'm not sure how intensely the Battles were used as bombers after the Fall of France.
They didn't even survive to the end of the Battle of France in the day bomber role after the mauling the Battle squadrons got during early May...!What was left of them were moved over to night ops, and continued in this role for a short while during the Battle of Britain period before the type was withdrawn from front line use in Oct 1940.
aeropilot said:
And which was more about the Hurricane anyway..... 
Just pondering...If we'd not had the Spitfire, but a correspondingly larger number of Hurricanes, would we still have won the battle?
If we'd not had the Hurricane, but had instead a correspondingly larger number of Spitfires, would we still have won the battle?
Impossible to answer, other than an all Spitfire RAF at the time, might have been more of an issue as we started to loose pilots and were relying on less experienced pilots, as the Hurricane being the more stable gun platform with more concentrated arc of fire meant less experienced pilots at deflection shooting could likely stand a greater chance of scoring hits.
That and the issue with a Spit being less able to sustain battle damage than the Hurricane. might have been an issue over time.
I think the outcome would have been the same with either a Hurricane only RAF or a Spitfire only RAF, as it was other factors more than aircraft type that dictated the outcome.
The RAF was glad to have the Spitfire, but it HAD to have the Hurricane is the phrase most used in this context.
That and the issue with a Spit being less able to sustain battle damage than the Hurricane. might have been an issue over time.
I think the outcome would have been the same with either a Hurricane only RAF or a Spitfire only RAF, as it was other factors more than aircraft type that dictated the outcome.
The RAF was glad to have the Spitfire, but it HAD to have the Hurricane is the phrase most used in this context.
But isn't that the problem with TV, it aims wider - and usually misses.
In the past, those who made TV programmes about such matters tended to know who they were aiming the programme at - and they also tended to know and understand the subject. Nowadays, the programme makers don't know and don't care.
As a result, I find much better stuff on You Tube these days - enthusiastic and knowledgeable presenters who know their subject.
In the past, those who made TV programmes about such matters tended to know who they were aiming the programme at - and they also tended to know and understand the subject. Nowadays, the programme makers don't know and don't care.
As a result, I find much better stuff on You Tube these days - enthusiastic and knowledgeable presenters who know their subject.
Yertis said:
Just pondering...
If we'd not had the Spitfire, but a correspondingly larger number of Hurricanes, would we still have won the battle?
Very possibly not, the Hurricane was no match for the 109 and sometimes had trouble catching up with the bombers. If we'd not had the Spitfire, but a correspondingly larger number of Hurricanes, would we still have won the battle?
Yertis said:
If we'd not had the Hurricane, but had instead a correspondingly larger number of Spitfires, would we still have won the battle?
Yes, but even if the Hurricane hadn't been invented it's doubtful that so many Spitfires could have been produced.Hawkers had been churning out huge quantities of the Hind/Hart/Fury biplane variants while Supermarine had been hand building state of the art racing seaplanes. They knew perfectly well that they couldn't produce an aircraft to match the 109 or Spitfire at that point. They also knew it would take Supermarine a while to mass produce Spitfires in large quantities and the RAF needed a more modern fighter urgently.
So Hawkers decided to push the existing technology one step further and produce a monoplane based on the Fury. This would give the RAF something to go along with until truly modern fighters were available in quantity, and keep Hawkers in business long enough to produce a brand new design which became the Typhoon.
Dr Jekyll said:
Yertis said:
Just pondering...
If we'd not had the Spitfire, but a correspondingly larger number of Hurricanes, would we still have won the battle?
Very possibly not, the Hurricane was no match for the 109 and sometimes had trouble catching up with the bombers. If we'd not had the Spitfire, but a correspondingly larger number of Hurricanes, would we still have won the battle?
The Hurricane could turn inside a 109 for a start, and there are large number of Battle of Britain Hurricane pilots with 109 kills.
Archie McKellar, the 2nd highest scoring RAF pilot in the Battle, downed FIVE 109's in a single day while flying a Hurricane.
The Hurricane, Spitfire and 109 all had their own advantages over the other 2, but overall were quite evenly matched, and it all came down to skill of the chap at the controls, and tactics being used.
The problem with the Hurricane was that, because it was based on what were essentially bi-plane construction methods, it could not be developed much beyond where it already was in 1940 - as a fighter - whereas the Spitfire and the 109 had plenty of growth and development potential. That's not to say that the Hurricane's war was finished by the end of 1940. Far from it. It still had an important part to play, especially as a ground attack aircraft.
Hawker knew that they couldn't do much to make the Hurricane a better fighter than it already was - which is why they chose to concentrate on new designs, such as the Typhoon and Tempest.
Supermarine, on the other hand, just kept tweaking the Spitfire design.
Hawker knew that they couldn't do much to make the Hurricane a better fighter than it already was - which is why they chose to concentrate on new designs, such as the Typhoon and Tempest.
Supermarine, on the other hand, just kept tweaking the Spitfire design.
Eric Mc said:
The problem with the Hurricane was that, because it was based on what were essentially bi-plane construction methods, it could not be developed much beyond where it already was in 1940 - as a fighter - whereas the Spitfire and the 109 had plenty of growth and development potential. That's not to say that the Hurricane's war was finished by the end of 1940. Far from it. It still had an important part to play, especially as a ground attack aircraft.
The Hurricane still had to bear the brunt of fighter duties in North Africa and the Med well into late 1941, until supplemented by the influx of diverted Curtiss P-40's. Both types though struggled against the Me109F models which The Luftwaffe began sending to North Africa by late '41.It wasn't until mid'42 that the first Spits were sent to the Med to redress the balance, especially as the Luftwaffe had started sending the new Fw190 to Tunisa.
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