The ‘Manuel’ Metaphor....
Discussion
Having read almost every thread about this, including those veering off in vitriolic tangents about contrast stitching, I feel like we’ve arrived at a détente between those who aspire to set lap times and those yearning the interactivity of 3 pedals and a busy left wrist. Of course, even that’s the wrong place to start this thread but to tell the truth, when searching for a GT3 I learned very little from the ‘debate’.
However, when Henry Catchpole raised the gearbox metaphor of Instant coffee versus Barista coffee it got me thinking that we could probably explain the differences by creating our own metaphors – and we might even appreciate each other’s point of view. The ‘manuel’ debate could also be a lot more fun and could go for many pages without mentioning residuals.
So what’s it going to be? Latte vs cappuccino? Vinyl vs MP3? Skiing vs snowboarding? Biro vs fountain-pen? OLED vs Plasma? Waitrose vs Asda? AC-DC vs Queen? Your possibilities are endless but could be informative….
However, when Henry Catchpole raised the gearbox metaphor of Instant coffee versus Barista coffee it got me thinking that we could probably explain the differences by creating our own metaphors – and we might even appreciate each other’s point of view. The ‘manuel’ debate could also be a lot more fun and could go for many pages without mentioning residuals.
So what’s it going to be? Latte vs cappuccino? Vinyl vs MP3? Skiing vs snowboarding? Biro vs fountain-pen? OLED vs Plasma? Waitrose vs Asda? AC-DC vs Queen? Your possibilities are endless but could be informative….
Well this guy certainly enjoys his PDK, the only car I've driven that can change down the gears quicker than jumping on the brakes in auto.
https://youtu.be/yeCKv-ujflY
https://youtu.be/yeCKv-ujflY
I can whip up a chicken curry from scratch, take time over the sauce, make sure the chicken is cooked ‘just so’. Use the secret family recipe that makes mine taste just a little bit different to the way the wife makes it.
Or I can call deliveroo get a “chicken tikka masala” delivered in 20mins and know that I’ll be s
ting through the eye of a needle in the morning.
Or I can call deliveroo get a “chicken tikka masala” delivered in 20mins and know that I’ll be s
ting through the eye of a needle in the morning. Melvynr said:
Well this guy certainly enjoys his PDK, the only car I've driven that can change down the gears quicker than jumping on the brakes in auto.
https://youtu.be/yeCKv-ujflY
In contrast https://youtu.be/yeCKv-ujflY
https://youtu.be/J3PlIdq8RMI
Pros race on whatever carbon frame they are sponsored to sit on, when they retire they ride steel or titanium.
Cat 4 choppers (and I’d include myself in this) spend a fortune on pro level kit when we’d probably be learning more about riding on 20 year old steel.
People always want the fastest kit, and many can convince themselves that the enjoyment comes from that (and when you’re not actually doing the activity the research, planning, acquisition genuinely can be a great source of enjoyment) but riding or driving itself? The greater the challenge the greater the reward, in my experience anyway.
Nice idea for a thread, but I predict Swiss Toni and Dunning-Kruger will be along shortly to pollute it.
Cat 4 choppers (and I’d include myself in this) spend a fortune on pro level kit when we’d probably be learning more about riding on 20 year old steel.
People always want the fastest kit, and many can convince themselves that the enjoyment comes from that (and when you’re not actually doing the activity the research, planning, acquisition genuinely can be a great source of enjoyment) but riding or driving itself? The greater the challenge the greater the reward, in my experience anyway.
Nice idea for a thread, but I predict Swiss Toni and Dunning-Kruger will be along shortly to pollute it.
Dammit said:
Pros race on whatever carbon frame they are sponsored to sit on, when they retire they ride steel or titanium.
Cat 4 choppers (and I’d include myself in this) spend a fortune on pro level kit when we’d probably be learning more about riding on 20 year old steel.
People always want the fastest kit, and many can convince themselves that the enjoyment comes from that (and when you’re not actually doing the activity the research, planning, acquisition genuinely can be a great source of enjoyment) but riding or driving itself? The greater the challenge the greater the reward, in my experience anyway.
Nice idea for a thread, but I predict Swiss Toni and Dunning-Kruger will be along shortly to pollute it.
Cat 4 choppers (and I’d include myself in this) spend a fortune on pro level kit when we’d probably be learning more about riding on 20 year old steel.
People always want the fastest kit, and many can convince themselves that the enjoyment comes from that (and when you’re not actually doing the activity the research, planning, acquisition genuinely can be a great source of enjoyment) but riding or driving itself? The greater the challenge the greater the reward, in my experience anyway.
Nice idea for a thread, but I predict Swiss Toni and Dunning-Kruger will be along shortly to pollute it.
Morning Neil, I hope you're well ?
The response from a friend who's very good cyclist, after I'd asked him if I should upgrade my current two wheeled steed :
"Simply swapping your hybrid for something more racy will make sweet FA difference. As a cycling coach once said to me “ Eddy Merckx could win the Tour de France on my bike, but I couldn’t win it on his”
Suffice to say I've retained my original steed ...
cayman-black said:
RSVP911 said:
The Master!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqREtbLe4sY
and let's not forget he's been instrumental in shaping/honing the driving dynamics of pretty much every contemporary Porsche that's rolled off the production line since 1993 ...
cayman-black said:
RSVP911 said:
The Master!warning - crap music
Slippydiff said:
Not quite, this is The Master at work in a 500-550hp monster, on the loose, utilising an incredibly crude 4wd system, all the time contending with turbo lag you could measure with a calendar AND the fanatical, suicidal Portugese spectators many of which were hellbent on touching the cars as they pass by :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqREtbLe4sY
and let's not forget he's been instrumental in shaping/honing the driving dynamics of pretty much every contemporary Porsche that's rolled off the production line since 1993 ...
True driving god..Great video and especially with regards to how Rally spectator safety has been transformed since the 80s..Equally good viewing on another driving god last night on TG when Chris Harris showed his wonderful tribute to Colin McRae..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqREtbLe4sY
and let's not forget he's been instrumental in shaping/honing the driving dynamics of pretty much every contemporary Porsche that's rolled off the production line since 1993 ...
Slippydiff said:
Not quite, this is The Master at work in a 500-550hp monster, on the loose, utilising an incredibly crude 4wd system, all the time contending with turbo lag you could measure with a calendar AND the fanatical, suicidal Portugese spectators many of which were hellbent on touching the cars as they pass by :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqREtbLe4sY
and let's not forget he's been instrumental in shaping/honing the driving dynamics of pretty much every contemporary Porsche that's rolled off the production line since 1993 ...
God I love the 1980's! I almost forgot how shockingly dangerous Group B was. Wasn't just the Portuguese I believe it was like that every rally. Watching Walter Rohrl is awe inspiring. Depressing in a way too, knowing I will never be able to drive like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqREtbLe4sY
and let's not forget he's been instrumental in shaping/honing the driving dynamics of pretty much every contemporary Porsche that's rolled off the production line since 1993 ...
paua said:
Better here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqREtbLe4sY
warning - crap music
Wow.warning - crap music
Back on topic: https://youtu.be/e7mpClSPyhk
If I've understood your post correctly:
To me, driving a manual car is like writing with a fountain pen. In 99% of situations it adds complexity where it is not needed and introduces greater risk of a worse outcome than a modern ball/tip pen. Pen technology has moved on a lot since the biro and it's only die-hard fans who continue to use the old tech and appreciate its analogue quality.
cf vinyl records / CDs / MP3
To me, driving a manual car is like writing with a fountain pen. In 99% of situations it adds complexity where it is not needed and introduces greater risk of a worse outcome than a modern ball/tip pen. Pen technology has moved on a lot since the biro and it's only die-hard fans who continue to use the old tech and appreciate its analogue quality.
cf vinyl records / CDs / MP3
There is a significant difference in approach, and in display of values/morals/priorities around this subject.
Some want a tactile experience involving all 5 senses, they want to have to work for their reward and they feel like kings when they get it right.
Others want to remain entirely detatched and sterile, with all energies being put into the time at the expense of being involved in what happens.
I like the analogy of meal prep
Preparing and cooking a meal is part of the experience of eating, and more fulfilling than just taking a 'meal in a pill' that you wash down with water and feel full 10 seconds later. Sure, the 'meal in a pill' frees up 2 hours per day for doing other stuff but you dont get to smell the onions or the garlic, you dont marinade the meat the night before, you dont pre-hea the oven or time when things need to go in, you just take the pill.
The 'meal in a pill' takes away all of the involvement and enjoyment and leaves you with and end-result that you didnt work for, and dont deserve.
Some want a tactile experience involving all 5 senses, they want to have to work for their reward and they feel like kings when they get it right.
Others want to remain entirely detatched and sterile, with all energies being put into the time at the expense of being involved in what happens.
I like the analogy of meal prep
Preparing and cooking a meal is part of the experience of eating, and more fulfilling than just taking a 'meal in a pill' that you wash down with water and feel full 10 seconds later. Sure, the 'meal in a pill' frees up 2 hours per day for doing other stuff but you dont get to smell the onions or the garlic, you dont marinade the meat the night before, you dont pre-hea the oven or time when things need to go in, you just take the pill.
The 'meal in a pill' takes away all of the involvement and enjoyment and leaves you with and end-result that you didnt work for, and dont deserve.
Olas said:
There is a significant difference in approach, and in display of values/morals/priorities around this subject.
Some want a tactile experience involving all 5 senses, they want to have to work for their reward and they feel like kings when they get it right.
Others want to remain entirely detatched and sterile, with all energies being put into the time at the expense of being involved in what happens.
I like the analogy of meal prep
Preparing and cooking a meal is part of the experience of eating, and more fulfilling than just taking a 'meal in a pill' that you wash down with water and feel full 10 seconds later. Sure, the 'meal in a pill' frees up 2 hours per day for doing other stuff but you dont get to smell the onions or the garlic, you dont marinade the meat the night before, you dont pre-hea the oven or time when things need to go in, you just take the pill.
The 'meal in a pill' takes away all of the involvement and enjoyment and leaves you with and end-result that you didnt work for, and dont deserve.
I'm not totally convinced ... I'd like to have my cake and eat it please, and the seminal, crude SMG transmissions in the M3 CSL/V10 M6 presented you with two wonderful and playful chassis AND automated gearboxes that required a lot of finessing to make work nicely/smoothly. Some want a tactile experience involving all 5 senses, they want to have to work for their reward and they feel like kings when they get it right.
Others want to remain entirely detatched and sterile, with all energies being put into the time at the expense of being involved in what happens.
I like the analogy of meal prep
Preparing and cooking a meal is part of the experience of eating, and more fulfilling than just taking a 'meal in a pill' that you wash down with water and feel full 10 seconds later. Sure, the 'meal in a pill' frees up 2 hours per day for doing other stuff but you dont get to smell the onions or the garlic, you dont marinade the meat the night before, you dont pre-hea the oven or time when things need to go in, you just take the pill.
The 'meal in a pill' takes away all of the involvement and enjoyment and leaves you with and end-result that you didnt work for, and dont deserve.
In short you are still involved in the process of changing gear, albeit the skillset to execute smooth gearchanges is subtlety different, but for me, every bit as challenging and rewarding.
As I've said before, not once did I return from a spirited drive in either car thinking "That would have been so much better/more enjoyable if I'd had a manual gearbox".
I perfect example was my ascent of the fabled Col de Turini for the first time in the CSL, it left me feeling "Like a King" as I got out of the car and wandered around almost in a trance, such was the pace I'd driven up it.
More modern need not always mean "worse".
Nurburgsingh said:
Melvynr said:
Well this guy certainly enjoys his PDK, the only car I've driven that can change down the gears quicker than jumping on the brakes in auto.
https://youtu.be/yeCKv-ujflY
In contrast https://youtu.be/yeCKv-ujflY
https://youtu.be/J3PlIdq8RMI
wannbe vs enthusiast
ie:
one who aspires, often vainly with money, to emulate another's person driving skills with as little an effort/skill as possible.
vs
A person who is very interested in a particular activity or subject and will learn a skill set and feel rewarded doing so.
Porsche911R said:
No.
Modern racing cars are driven enthusiastically, and nearly all of them have semi-automatic gearboxes. Re the cooking metaphor - The act of cooking is analogous to how you drive the car. The manual/auto question is like comparing modern appliances to cut/mix/heat etc over utensils and flame. Taking a nutrition pill is being driven around the track.
I think Pistonheads has a bot generating manual/auto threads to keep the post count up.
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