20mph speed limit/speed bump galore
Discussion
Sorry of this is a repost...
From one weekend to the next central London has a blanket 20mph speed limit imposed and loads of added speed bumps particularly along the embankment - going west, this was one of the last remaining London stretches of roads where traffic was moving ok thanks to the dual lane (East was destroyed with the cycling highway and is now a complete utter nightmare at all times).
Was there any announcement about this? Any explanation of how this will improve London traffic? They declared war on motorists a while ago with the cycling revolution - why not go all out and impose a 5mph limit? If we don't like it we can just "get on our bikes".
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
From one weekend to the next central London has a blanket 20mph speed limit imposed and loads of added speed bumps particularly along the embankment - going west, this was one of the last remaining London stretches of roads where traffic was moving ok thanks to the dual lane (East was destroyed with the cycling highway and is now a complete utter nightmare at all times).
Was there any announcement about this? Any explanation of how this will improve London traffic? They declared war on motorists a while ago with the cycling revolution - why not go all out and impose a 5mph limit? If we don't like it we can just "get on our bikes".
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
winther said:
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
Lucky most cars and vans have stop/start these days so gridlocked traffic emits a lot less than it used to.Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
For all we know, the 20mph limits might to reduce the concertina effect, resulting in less traffic buildup and better fuel economy. the amount of slowing and acceleration over speedbumps is obviously reduced if vehicles are going no more than 20mph.
winther said:
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
The government produced a scientific report showing how speedbumps drastically increase pollution and advised authorities not to fit any more Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
Khan the mouth breathers response ? Double the number installed in london over 5 years and then complain about air quality
braddo said:
Lucky most cars and vans have stop/start these days so gridlocked traffic emits a lot less than it used to.
For all we know, the 20mph limits might to reduce the concertina effect, resulting in less traffic buildup and better fuel economy. the amount of slowing and acceleration over speedbumps is obviously reduced if vehicles are going no more than 20mph.
Depends on how well designed the speed humps are, there's some truly vicious ones near me I need to take almost at walking pace, others are more sensible.For all we know, the 20mph limits might to reduce the concertina effect, resulting in less traffic buildup and better fuel economy. the amount of slowing and acceleration over speedbumps is obviously reduced if vehicles are going no more than 20mph.
winther said:
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
I'm sure you actually know the answer to this, which is that the idea of the changes it to discourage people from driving at all. Whether it works or not is another matter...kambites said:
I'm sure you actually know the answer to this, which is that the idea of the changes it to discourage people from driving at all. Whether it works or not is another matter...
I don't think so - if you routinely drive through London during rush hour/pay the congestion charge, it's because you are dependent on a vehicle. Like myself when I am transporting equipment for a photoshoot. Most people jumping on the bike are people who used to commute on public transport. Ask around the office - how many of your cyclist colleagues used to drive their own vehicle to work rather than using the tube?"It's clear the new 20mph speed limits will not only save lives but will also encourage Londoners to travel in more active and sustainable ways."
Translation - "if we suffocate traffic even further, people will jump on their bikes."
Edited by winther on Monday 2nd March 15:25
braddo said:
winther said:
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
Lucky most cars and vans have stop/start these days so gridlocked traffic emits a lot less than it used to.Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
For all we know, the 20mph limits might to reduce the concertina effect, resulting in less traffic buildup and better fuel economy. the amount of slowing and acceleration over speedbumps is obviously reduced if vehicles are going no more than 20mph.
No, the speed limit/speed bumps are all about profit. These days it is perfectly fine to sh*t on motorists as long as you back it up with a "green"/safety argument.
"It's clear the new 20mph speed limits will not only save lives but will also encourage Londoners to travel in more active and sustainable ways."
Again, they know most people who regularly make their way through London by car do it because they need their vehicle - but with the green argument they can hide their true intent which is profit.
Edited by winther on Monday 2nd March 15:28
Edited by winther on Monday 2nd March 15:29
winther said:
If keeping the traffic moving was even a slight consideration, they would not have sacrificed dual lanes on the main roads through London. I used to be able to drive from Victoria to Canary Wharf on a Sunday night in 30 minutes. It now takes me 1 hour if I'm lucky, purely due to the embankment/Upper Thames st being one lane, and people trying to avoid this stretch are clogging up all other routes.
No, the speed limit/speed bumps are all about profit. These days it is perfectly fine to sh*t on motorists as long as you back it up with a "green"/safety argument.
"It's clear the new 20mph speed limits will not only save lives but will also encourage Londoners to travel in more active and sustainable ways."
Again, they know most people who regularly make their way through London by car do it because they need their vehicle - but with the green argument they can hide their true intent which is profit.
As been proven by either colour government in recent times they literally don't care about your concerns or whether or not this will effect your life or personal mental health etc The air being clean out trumps your complaints. Suck it up or go elsewhere would be my advice. London is a sNo, the speed limit/speed bumps are all about profit. These days it is perfectly fine to sh*t on motorists as long as you back it up with a "green"/safety argument.
"It's clear the new 20mph speed limits will not only save lives but will also encourage Londoners to travel in more active and sustainable ways."
Again, they know most people who regularly make their way through London by car do it because they need their vehicle - but with the green argument they can hide their true intent which is profit.
Edited by winther on Monday 2nd March 15:28
Edited by winther on Monday 2nd March 15:29
thole anyway .InitialDave said:
braddo said:
Lucky most cars and vans have stop/start these days so gridlocked traffic emits a lot less than it used to.
For all we know, the 20mph limits might to reduce the concertina effect, resulting in less traffic buildup and better fuel economy. the amount of slowing and acceleration over speedbumps is obviously reduced if vehicles are going no more than 20mph.
Depends on how well designed the speed humps are, there's some truly vicious ones near me I need to take almost at walking pace, others are more sensible.For all we know, the 20mph limits might to reduce the concertina effect, resulting in less traffic buildup and better fuel economy. the amount of slowing and acceleration over speedbumps is obviously reduced if vehicles are going no more than 20mph.
I end up crawling over them, then ragging it to the next one.
Vickers_VC10 said:
winther said:
If keeping the traffic moving was even a slight consideration, they would not have sacrificed dual lanes on the main roads through London. I used to be able to drive from Victoria to Canary Wharf on a Sunday night in 30 minutes. It now takes me 1 hour if I'm lucky, purely due to the embankment/Upper Thames st being one lane, and people trying to avoid this stretch are clogging up all other routes.
No, the speed limit/speed bumps are all about profit. These days it is perfectly fine to sh*t on motorists as long as you back it up with a "green"/safety argument.
"It's clear the new 20mph speed limits will not only save lives but will also encourage Londoners to travel in more active and sustainable ways."
Again, they know most people who regularly make their way through London by car do it because they need their vehicle - but with the green argument they can hide their true intent which is profit.
As been proven by either colour government in recent times they literally don't care about your concerns or whether or not this will effect your life or personal mental health etc The air being clean out trumps your complaints. Suck it up or go elsewhere would be my advice. London is a sNo, the speed limit/speed bumps are all about profit. These days it is perfectly fine to sh*t on motorists as long as you back it up with a "green"/safety argument.
"It's clear the new 20mph speed limits will not only save lives but will also encourage Londoners to travel in more active and sustainable ways."
Again, they know most people who regularly make their way through London by car do it because they need their vehicle - but with the green argument they can hide their true intent which is profit.
Edited by winther on Monday 2nd March 15:28
Edited by winther on Monday 2nd March 15:29
thole anyway .But no - of course they are not going to listen to motorists when their aim is to make driving our cars so inconvenient that we are forced to find alternatives. I think they underestimated how much motorists needing their vehicles are willing to accept before abandoning the idea of driving. Streets are still packed, but moving even slower thanks to their initiatives.
I live and work in Canary Wharf, so thankfully don't commute. Although it's not far from a proper s
thole/ghetto this particular area is pretty nice.I do have to drive to various jobs sometimes, often with lots of equipment. Not sure what bike would be suitable riding from Canary Wharf to Surrey with 10K worth of tripods/cameras etc, but guess I need to figure this out soon.
TFL is on record admitting that the 20mph limit does make the air quality worse as all cars are inefficient at that speed but they're saying that it's to save (& it has nothing to do with the fact that the trial cameras were struggling to pick up every car when travelling at 30mph) people from more severe injuries at 30mph, when it was pointed out that crossing zones on every road would be a simple solution they declined to comment. 
think of the children
think of the children It isn't just Central London, my mother's flat is in Worcester Park (London Borough of Sutton) and her road has had a 20 mph limit for about 20 years!
But thankfully within 4 or 5 miles I can get into Surrey on the A3 - even if parts of that have a 50mph limit until I get past the Ace of Spades.
Although back in the 70s/80s it had an N/S/L of 70 even for 60s bangers like my Mk2 Cortina, which was nowhere near as capable as my current cars.
Anyway this is an example of what is in Green Lane, Worcester Park.
But thankfully within 4 or 5 miles I can get into Surrey on the A3 - even if parts of that have a 50mph limit until I get past the Ace of Spades.
Although back in the 70s/80s it had an N/S/L of 70 even for 60s bangers like my Mk2 Cortina, which was nowhere near as capable as my current cars.
Anyway this is an example of what is in Green Lane, Worcester Park.
From TFL's report themselves: Cars pollute twice as much at 10mph than they do at 20mph.
I cycled daily in London for well over 10 years - it worked well for me. But, is the notion that most people for whom cycling to work is realistic and practical mostly already do so? Is this chase to make cycling more attractive at the expense of stifling buses and other vehicles actually worthy or a bit self-defeating? I accept it is a bit different outside London where tokenistic cycle lanes are often a hazard in themselves and much improvement is needed - but NOT by creating more pollution and driving people off buses as journey times get so slow.
I cycled daily in London for well over 10 years - it worked well for me. But, is the notion that most people for whom cycling to work is realistic and practical mostly already do so? Is this chase to make cycling more attractive at the expense of stifling buses and other vehicles actually worthy or a bit self-defeating? I accept it is a bit different outside London where tokenistic cycle lanes are often a hazard in themselves and much improvement is needed - but NOT by creating more pollution and driving people off buses as journey times get so slow.
Vickers_VC10 said:
As been proven by either colour government in recent times they literally don't care about your concerns or whether or not this will effect your life or personal mental health etc The air being clean out trumps your complaints.
Yeah I get that, which makes the use of speed bumps baffling as they have been proven to increase pollution.RSTurboPaul said:
increasing tickets from 160k to 1m per year.
I frankly wouldn't mind, as long as they targeted the red light jumpers, roundabout fiends, mouth-breathers who turn across oncoming traffic lanes, self-indulgent c*&%s who don't indicate and so forth...Unfortunately I fear you are correct - they won't touch a single one of the ones I've mentioned and will instead do you in for going 24mph on a clear road in the dry.
winther said:
Sorry of this is a repost...
From one weekend to the next central London has a blanket 20mph speed limit imposed and loads of added speed bumps particularly along the embankment - going west, this was one of the last remaining London stretches of roads where traffic was moving ok thanks to the dual lane (East was destroyed with the cycling highway and is now a complete utter nightmare at all times).
Was there any announcement about this? Any explanation of how this will improve London traffic? They declared war on motorists a while ago with the cycling revolution - why not go all out and impose a 5mph limit? If we don't like it we can just "get on our bikes".
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
I'd love to know when you can drive along the Embankment and don't have to wait at least 2 cycles to clear any set of lights. You could drive at the aforementioned 5mph along there and still have no effect on your A to B journey time.From one weekend to the next central London has a blanket 20mph speed limit imposed and loads of added speed bumps particularly along the embankment - going west, this was one of the last remaining London stretches of roads where traffic was moving ok thanks to the dual lane (East was destroyed with the cycling highway and is now a complete utter nightmare at all times).
Was there any announcement about this? Any explanation of how this will improve London traffic? They declared war on motorists a while ago with the cycling revolution - why not go all out and impose a 5mph limit? If we don't like it we can just "get on our bikes".
And btw, if the environment and air quality in London is a concern, why make changes which grind traffic to a halt and causes a journey to take 3x longer?
Also, isn't the constant stop/accellerate caused by speedbumps and lower speed with a 20mph limit resulting in more traffic buildup and worse fuel economy for cars?
I'm all ears as to how you suggest this change will make journeys 3 x longer.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff