Most anti-business Tory party?
Discussion
Tuna said:
All the stuff over IR-35, now talk of reducing or removing entrepreneurs tax relief... it comes to something when the Labour part appear more supportive of business than the Conservatives.
I'm not sure those two examples are necessarily "anti-business" Tuna.IR35 has been a dog's dinner for 20yrs. This govt are just doubling down on it (well, the last govt really. These just haven't stopped it). It'll backfire and will find its level.
Entrepreneurs tax relief isn't exactly about keeping your business going
Don't get me wrong, I wish they'd stop messing about on the fringes. But that's all they really have to play with.
Murph7355 said:
Tuna said:
All the stuff over IR-35, now talk of reducing or removing entrepreneurs tax relief... it comes to something when the Labour part appear more supportive of business than the Conservatives.
I'm not sure those two examples are necessarily "anti-business" Tuna.IR35 has been a dog's dinner for 20yrs. This govt are just doubling down on it (well, the last govt really. These just haven't stopped it). It'll backfire and will find its level.
Entrepreneurs tax relief isn't exactly about keeping your business going
Don't get me wrong, I wish they'd stop messing about on the fringes. But that's all they really have to play with.
They are both to do with the technicalities of tax. IR35 is a measure against disguised employment so has nothing whatsoever to do with "business" in my opinion. People who would have been employees a generation ago now show up, work a 9-5, fill in a timesheet, and expect to be treated as if they are the next Richard Branson.
Entrepreneurs relief has long been abused for profit extraction (as I well know working in practice). There will always need to be a balance between encouraging risk taking through the tax system and making sure people pay their fair share of tax.
Sadly seems to be anti SME enterprise with the ongoing attack on many fronts including contractors and BTL
to be fair most people in small business see the Tories as the least worst option but their real DNA is the wants and needs of big business and old money, he who pays the piper and all that ..
to be fair there is a lot of bogus self employment where people are just working for one "customer" filling permanent roles
thinking of a certain plumbing firm !! , the acid test should be do you pick your work ,your customers and your availability,
should be able to show more than one customer or another contract in the pipeline for a different customer and be have invoices to prove you work a contract and move on to the next !!
to be fair most people in small business see the Tories as the least worst option but their real DNA is the wants and needs of big business and old money, he who pays the piper and all that ..
to be fair there is a lot of bogus self employment where people are just working for one "customer" filling permanent roles
thinking of a certain plumbing firm !! , the acid test should be do you pick your work ,your customers and your availability,
should be able to show more than one customer or another contract in the pipeline for a different customer and be have invoices to prove you work a contract and move on to the next !!
powerstroke said:
Sadly seems to be anti SME enterprise with the ongoing attack on many fronts including contractors and BTL
to be fair most people in small business see the Tories as the least worst option but their real DNA is the wants and needs of big business and old money, he who pays the piper and all that ..
to be fair there is a lot of bogus self employment where people are just working for one "customer" filling permanent roles
thinking of a certain plumbing firm !! , the acid test should be do you pick your work ,your customers and your availability,
should be able to show more than one customer or another contract in the pipeline for a different customer and be have invoices to prove you work a contract and move on to the next !!
Farage has a personal services company to avoid taxation.to be fair most people in small business see the Tories as the least worst option but their real DNA is the wants and needs of big business and old money, he who pays the piper and all that ..
to be fair there is a lot of bogus self employment where people are just working for one "customer" filling permanent roles
thinking of a certain plumbing firm !! , the acid test should be do you pick your work ,your customers and your availability,
should be able to show more than one customer or another contract in the pipeline for a different customer and be have invoices to prove you work a contract and move on to the next !!
Who was it that said "f
k business"? 
I'm not an expert on business.
I'd say a fairly simple test is ask what you'd think of the policy if it was announced by someone else i.e. Corbyn or McDonnell.
If you'd think "Nice one Jezza" be honest and say so.
But if you think "What a turd of a policy" be honest too and don't defend it just because the person announcing it is on your team.
k business"? I'm not an expert on business.
I'd say a fairly simple test is ask what you'd think of the policy if it was announced by someone else i.e. Corbyn or McDonnell.
If you'd think "Nice one Jezza" be honest and say so.
But if you think "What a turd of a policy" be honest too and don't defend it just because the person announcing it is on your team.
Eric Mc said:
The notion that the Conservatives are "pro-business" or "pro-defence" is rather ancient history now.
They are pretty much "pro whatever they think goes down well with their voter base" - as are most parties.
And they are actively in the process of trying to steal the Labour voter base.They are pretty much "pro whatever they think goes down well with their voter base" - as are most parties.
JagLover said:
... There will always need to be a balance between encouraging risk taking through the tax system and making sure people pay their fair share of tax.
Million dollar question that effectively underpins differing political ideologies is... "what is a fair share?".Answers on a postcard
powerstroke said:
.... , the acid test should be do you pick your work ,your customers and your availability,
should be able to show more than one customer or another contract in the pipeline for a different customer and be have invoices to prove you work a contract and move on to the next !!
The reason the legislation is so flawed is that the govt have also tried to tackle it as you are suggesting. Life is simply more nuanced than that. should be able to show more than one customer or another contract in the pipeline for a different customer and be have invoices to prove you work a contract and move on to the next !!
Not one of the acid tests you note couldn't be "played" or have serious unintended consequences. For example in quelling the number of startups - certainly in the services industry.
We have to go back to basics and think carefully about what the real objectives are.
If it's tax intake then I suspect GO's approach on that was in the right direction - cut the holes that are there to be leveraged. Eg dividend taxation. (I'd also scrub the charade that is NI and add it to income tax and Corporation Tax - if we must. Another bs tax - to balance it out). But in doing so, make sure you aren't causing other issues (eg people being less inclined to invest in companies).
If it's about staff welfare (seriously doubtful it ever has been) then there are different levers to pull depending on whether you prefer big or small govt.
The problem is that all thinking on these and other policy areas, but especially taxation, is too one dimensional. This might be OK if we were really clear on our objectives and the priority of them. But we aren't. So the thinking is confused and the outcomes even worse.
Murph7355 said:
(I'd also scrub the charade that is NI and add it to income tax and Corporation Tax - if we must. Another bs tax - to balance it out)
While I agree NI is just another tax. I read an article on changing it and it's not easy from a systems or political perspective. A lot of benefits are linked to NI. The most obvious is pensions. Amalgamation of NI into other taxes requires not only a rewrite of a lot of benefits legislation but also rewriting the underlying benefits systems.
NI also has a political advantage in the employer's contribution are a hidden tax which no one thinks of as real tax.
Mrr T said:
Murph7355 said:
(I'd also scrub the charade that is NI and add it to income tax and Corporation Tax - if we must. Another bs tax - to balance it out)
While I agree NI is just another tax. I read an article on changing it and it's not easy from a systems or political perspective. A lot of benefits are linked to NI. The most obvious is pensions. Amalgamation of NI into other taxes requires not only a rewrite of a lot of benefits legislation but also rewriting the underlying benefits systems.
NI also has a political advantage in the employer's contribution are a hidden tax which no one thinks of as real tax.
But things must be paid for so today it is what it is tomorrow is a different story.
Mrr T said:
While I agree NI is just another tax. I read an article on changing it and it's not easy from a systems or political perspective.
A lot of benefits are linked to NI. The most obvious is pensions. Amalgamation of NI into other taxes requires not only a rewrite of a lot of benefits legislation but also rewriting the underlying benefits systems.
NI also has a political advantage in the employer's contribution are a hidden tax which no one thinks of as real tax.
The NI system is a real mess. A number of Chancellors have looked at simplifying it but every time they do they realise what a complicated minefield it is and walk away.A lot of benefits are linked to NI. The most obvious is pensions. Amalgamation of NI into other taxes requires not only a rewrite of a lot of benefits legislation but also rewriting the underlying benefits systems.
NI also has a political advantage in the employer's contribution are a hidden tax which no one thinks of as real tax.
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