Engines - Confirmation of what we already expected.
Discussion
When Mercedes-Benz introduce their next model C63, the V8 is going to be replaced by an in-line 4 cylinder engine.
Can you imagine a DBS Superlegerra with a 4 cylinder engine ? -
The Aston Martin V6 will be replacing the Mercedes V8, as we had thought.
I don't think it has been stated, but presumably Cosworth are/have developed the V6, and the first model to use it will be the Valhalla.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/aston-martin-will...
We all know something about EU legislation penalizing fuel consumption beyond certain levels. The EU fleet wide target is 95 g CO₂/km and therefore it is a logical approach to use the four cylinder in the A-Class and also in the C-Class (hybrid power added). But Daimler will continue to build powerful engines in the AMG-GT and S-Class. Larger engines will survive and would be available to Aston Martin.
If future face lifts will include hybrid components also in Aston Martin cars, then a smaller engine could be reasonable.
But: I see more people who are looking for more cylinders in the Vantage and I see few people who prefer an engine with smaller displacement and less cylinders?
If future face lifts will include hybrid components also in Aston Martin cars, then a smaller engine could be reasonable.
But: I see more people who are looking for more cylinders in the Vantage and I see few people who prefer an engine with smaller displacement and less cylinders?
As a contrarian I would like to see the I6 used in the DB7 modernised with turbocharging, direct injection and electrification.
Perfect combination of history and future gives a nod to the current trend of downsized and boosted. Would’ve been quicker and cheaper than commissioning Cosworth to build a new one from the ground up.
Perfect combination of history and future gives a nod to the current trend of downsized and boosted. Would’ve been quicker and cheaper than commissioning Cosworth to build a new one from the ground up.
LooneyTunes said:
V6 is one engine layout that I've never owned. Hoping that it ends up being wonderful and not the case that if those of us from the V8/V12 generation hadn't seen such riches we could live with being poor...
Got me thinking about the engines I have owned..IL 4
Flat 4
IL 5
IL 6
V6
V8
V12
All in petrol powered form too
Never owned a twin or triple, (but driven quite a few) or a V10. Am I missing any more?
My Land Rover is the only diesel I have ever owned..
andymadmak said:
I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing what Aston/Cosworth can bring forward.
Do we actually know that it is Cosworth?
In the opening post, I only said presumably Cosworth.
It was just a guess, because of the Valkyrie connection.
Another possibility might be Ricardo (McLaren engine maker), because I think they are making the Valkyrie gearboxes.
XXXAngelXXX said:
V6 = bye bye AM 
Aston's own V6 is a death sentence, but buying someone else's off-the-shelf V8 is ok 
A V6 isn't my favorite engine configuration, for various reasons, and there have been few great V6s. But, as has been pointed out in this thread, there have been some. Hopefully, this will be another. I'd certainly have it over any non-Aston engine.
XXXAngelXXX said:
V6 = bye bye AM
In their position, what would you do? Bear in mind the following:- Using bought-in hardware from AMG caused an uproar because the engine was no longer a 'purebreed' Aston Martin unit.
- The world is moving towards more efficient, smaller engines, and phasing out ICE all together - if you don't move with the times, you become obsolete. At the end of the last gen V8V's life, that was woefully behind the times, as pretty as it looked. Aston cannot allow that to happen with the current Vantage.
woodsypedia said:
Cosworth make incredible engines - this is a match made in heaven.
Yes, how can we all forget the remarkable DFV. Made possible by Walter Hayes, who was also important in Ford's decision to buy Aston Martin.
Don't get too excited just yet though.
I did mention Cosworth earlier, but it was only a guess (Valkyrie connection).
Ricardo make engines for McLaren (and I think also the gearbox for Valkyrie).
NFC 85 Vette seems to be very well informed about what us going on. If I have understood correctly, he indicates the V6 development and production is within AML.
If I had a choice between an engine which is the first result of work of a new team, produced in a new factory by a new assembly team - or an M177-AMG engine I know quite well which engine I would choose.
Independent from this logic I would likely have a preference for the engine with larger displacement and higher number of cylinders.
I am not sure if a company which is stretched beyond its capabilities with the DBX project alone (both resources as well as financial means) makes a wise decision to invest into inhouse engines. Especially since we don´t know if such engines will be allowed on the roads in few years.
Independent from this logic I would likely have a preference for the engine with larger displacement and higher number of cylinders.
I am not sure if a company which is stretched beyond its capabilities with the DBX project alone (both resources as well as financial means) makes a wise decision to invest into inhouse engines. Especially since we don´t know if such engines will be allowed on the roads in few years.
Jon39 said:
Yes, how can we all forget the remarkable DFV. Made possible by Walter Hayes, who was also important in Ford's decision to buy Aston Martin.
Don't get too excited just yet though.
I did mention Cosworth earlier, but it was only a guess (Valkyrie connection).
Ricardo make engines for McLaren (and I think also the gearbox for Valkyrie).
NFC 85 Vette seems to be very well informed about what us going on. If I have understood correctly, he indicates the V6 development and production is within AML.
The picture will become clearer in time; there's a lot of stuff being worked on on different projects, and it tends to all get confused. It's often forgotten that the AE31 V12 was an in-house job, going back to 2015-2016, so the engineering capability was already there, and that engine still has some headroom above what's on show in the DBSS (I believe the end goal being a DBSS that can genuinely outperform an 812SF).
While the V6 has been mooted as simply a Valkyrie engine chopped in half with turbos added, it's somewhat more complex. It's its own 'thing' but more likely would be derived from the AE31, because a turbocharged V12 is a good place to start when developing a turbocharged V6, but it's likely the hybrid tech from the Valkyrie (also used in Valhalla) will trickle down to the Vantage V6 in some fashion. The key thing is it's all heading in the right direction.
As I probably waffled about previously, a hybrid assisted, turbocharged V6 would have the feel and performance of a much bigger capacity engine, because while you work the turbos harder, any lag can be mitigated or removed by the hybrid element (motor generator unit fixed to the turbo, to provide torque before it comes on-boost). The 3rd gen battery tech now finding its way into production cars is quite exciting as the mass to cart around has dropped to the point where there's not the massive weight penalty, but the efficiency and outright power only gets better each iteration.
For the time being, the DBX M177 V8 would remain, but the architecture in that chassis allows all manner of power trains in the future (another advantage of using a bespoke chassis).
Personally what I'd like to see would be the 7 speed Graziano transmission that's used in McLaren applications, make its way into the Aston applications; Aston already has a contract with them for the 7-speed dog leg manual, and we're forever hearing complaints about the ZF8 being "not as good as a dual-clutch", when in the real world, I find it perfectly suited for fast road work in Vantage, DB11 and DBSS. More likely I expect, the 9 speed auto DBX box will get used in the lower output GT cars, because it's reportedly a wonderful transmission and a genuine upgrade over the ZF8 (might know next month when the DBX demos arrive).
Nbgring said:
If I had a choice between an engine which is the first result of work of a new team, produced in a new factory by a new assembly team - or an M177-AMG engine I know quite well which engine I would choose.
Independent from this logic I would likely have a preference for the engine with larger displacement and higher number of cylinders.
I am not sure if a company which is stretched beyond its capabilities with the DBX project alone (both resources as well as financial means) makes a wise decision to invest into inhouse engines. Especially since we don´t know if such engines will be allowed on the roads in few years.
Well, that team's been there since 2015, and Gaydon's not really a new factory. Unless you're talking about moving the Cologne engine room to St. Athan? At the moment (as noted above) the V6 development is happening where the AE31 V12 development did, and that panned out alright IMO. Independent from this logic I would likely have a preference for the engine with larger displacement and higher number of cylinders.
I am not sure if a company which is stretched beyond its capabilities with the DBX project alone (both resources as well as financial means) makes a wise decision to invest into inhouse engines. Especially since we don´t know if such engines will be allowed on the roads in few years.
Aston Martin cant really win though, can they? They bought in tech from AMG with the M177 to leap frog the 15 year gap in technology, and AM enthusiasts complained about 'non purebred' engines. Now they're back developing their own engines, to counter those complaints - people now complain it's not a wise investment. There simply isn't an answer that will please all the people, all the time, and that's before the government push you into a corner and force you to get creative to ensure Co2 emissions take a quantifiable reduction in your product range.
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