Lockerbie disaster case to be re-investigated?
Discussion
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/11/lo...
The "conspiracy theory" about it being the Iranians has been around a long time and is one of the more convincing theories I think.
The "conspiracy theory" about it being the Iranians has been around a long time and is one of the more convincing theories I think.
2fast748 said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/11/lo...
The "conspiracy theory" about it being the Iranians has been around a long time and is one of the more convincing theories I think.
It's only a conspiracy theory for those that didn't follow it all back 'then'. It was pretty obvious that it was retaliation for the USS Vincennes shooting down the Iran Air flight.The "conspiracy theory" about it being the Iranians has been around a long time and is one of the more convincing theories I think.
jshell said:
2fast748 said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/11/lo...
The "conspiracy theory" about it being the Iranians has been around a long time and is one of the more convincing theories I think.
It's only a conspiracy theory for those that didn't follow it all back 'then'. It was pretty obvious that it was retaliation for the USS Vincennes shooting down the Iran Air flight.The "conspiracy theory" about it being the Iranians has been around a long time and is one of the more convincing theories I think.
I went to a couple of talks by the NoK of the victims of the terrorist incident. Both had visited the trial. Both felt it was a fitup.
The Americans didn't do anything to take the sting out of the shooting down of the IranAir flight. The act was inexcusable but it wasn't deliberate, just the actions of a bloke who panicked.
What discipline actions should have been taken against him are open to argument. The one thing he should not have been given was a medal. If the Americans had admitted that the Iranians had funded the terrorist attack, they'd had had to admit their actiions with regards the captain were, to put it mildly, ill advised.
The Americans still have the black box as well as the details of the recordings.
I worked with people who had chatted to those involved in the 'hot' investigation. I was told that some of the American investigators failed to follow basic scenes of crime procedure and also refused to follow directivies. Some wandered all over, picking things up and discarding them. I asked if the suggestions of salting the field had any support. The chap I asked just shrugged knowingly.
The Americans didn't do anything to take the sting out of the shooting down of the IranAir flight. The act was inexcusable but it wasn't deliberate, just the actions of a bloke who panicked.
What discipline actions should have been taken against him are open to argument. The one thing he should not have been given was a medal. If the Americans had admitted that the Iranians had funded the terrorist attack, they'd had had to admit their actiions with regards the captain were, to put it mildly, ill advised.
The Americans still have the black box as well as the details of the recordings.
I worked with people who had chatted to those involved in the 'hot' investigation. I was told that some of the American investigators failed to follow basic scenes of crime procedure and also refused to follow directivies. Some wandered all over, picking things up and discarding them. I asked if the suggestions of salting the field had any support. The chap I asked just shrugged knowingly.
Europa1 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Let's wait and see what else comes up from any appeal. Will the Heathrow connection be finally reinvestigated?
I am not au fait with the alternative theories - what is the "Heathrow connection"?Dr Morag Kerr's book is one half dispelling the theory of the Malta connection, the other showing how it is more likely to have been loaded at Heathrow. Way too much to put into a forum post but a read of the book is very much required.
It's no tinfoil-hattery, it's a very detailed investigation.
If you're more into extravagant and wild theories, Lester Coleman's Trail Of The Octopus is worth a read. I don't doubt he's full of it but there's enough facts in his story that I think there's some truth in there somewhere.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/01/03/adequatel...
Dr Morag Kerr's book is one half dispelling the theory of the Malta connection, the other showing how it is more likely to have been loaded at Heathrow. Way too much to put into a forum post but a read of the book is very much required.
It's no tinfoil-hattery, it's a very detailed investigation.
If you're more into extravagant and wild theories, Lester Coleman's Trail Of The Octopus is worth a read. I don't doubt he's full of it but there's enough facts in his story that I think there's some truth in there somewhere.
Thanks; I'll have a read.Dr Morag Kerr's book is one half dispelling the theory of the Malta connection, the other showing how it is more likely to have been loaded at Heathrow. Way too much to put into a forum post but a read of the book is very much required.
It's no tinfoil-hattery, it's a very detailed investigation.
If you're more into extravagant and wild theories, Lester Coleman's Trail Of The Octopus is worth a read. I don't doubt he's full of it but there's enough facts in his story that I think there's some truth in there somewhere.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
jshell said:
It's also worth reading The Foot Report: Flight From Justice - a Private Eye special written by the Guardian's Paul Foot. It's freely downloadable!
I have it on PDF, ironically forwarded on from a PistonHead'r some ten years ago or so.
Reckon I sent it to 40 or 50 PH'ers. jshell said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
jshell said:
It's also worth reading The Foot Report: Flight From Justice - a Private Eye special written by the Guardian's Paul Foot. It's freely downloadable!
I have it on PDF, ironically forwarded on from a PistonHead'r some ten years ago or so. Reckon I sent it to 40 or 50 PH'ers. 
jshell said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
jshell said:
It's also worth reading The Foot Report: Flight From Justice - a Private Eye special written by the Guardian's Paul Foot. It's freely downloadable!
I have it on PDF, ironically forwarded on from a PistonHead'r some ten years ago or so. Reckon I sent it to 40 or 50 PH'ers. Foot had an agenda, but then so does everyone else. You can't fault his report on any fact and his conclusions, such as they are, are difficult to argue against unless you don't hold your credibility dear.
Before anyone can dismiss any alternative as tinfoil hat foolery, they should read the report and then counter the points raised.
The most likely motive was revenge for the IranAir shooting down. The two actions were not similar. One was an act of crass terrorism against innocents, the other was inept management of a manufactured crisis which killed 20 more innocents. The one common theme was the American response to both. In one, they hid the facts to suit themselves, and in the other . . .
There's over 10,000 words on Lockerbie in Wiki, with around 30 about the Foot report, while the Iran Air disaster has a total of a few hundred over 5,000.
Derek Smith said:
jshell said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
jshell said:
It's also worth reading The Foot Report: Flight From Justice - a Private Eye special written by the Guardian's Paul Foot. It's freely downloadable!
I have it on PDF, ironically forwarded on from a PistonHead'r some ten years ago or so. Reckon I sent it to 40 or 50 PH'ers. Foot had an agenda, but then so does everyone else. You can't fault his report on any fact and his conclusions, such as they are, are difficult to argue against unless you don't hold your credibility dear.
Before anyone can dismiss any alternative as tinfoil hat foolery, they should read the report and then counter the points raised.
The most likely motive was revenge for the IranAir shooting down. The two actions were not similar. One was an act of crass terrorism against innocents, the other was inept management of a manufactured crisis which killed 20 more innocents. The one common theme was the American response to both. In one, they hid the facts to suit themselves, and in the other . . .
There's over 10,000 words on Lockerbie in Wiki, with around 30 about the Foot report, while the Iran Air disaster has a total of a few hundred over 5,000.
Interestingly, I've spoken with 3 officers involved back then. All reckoned Iran was the instigator. Also interesting is my neighbour led the team that fought against Megrahi's appeal!
I worked with a guy who whilst in the RAF was on search detail after the disaster. He had some horror stories.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
jshell said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
jshell said:
It's also worth reading The Foot Report: Flight From Justice - a Private Eye special written by the Guardian's Paul Foot. It's freely downloadable!
I have it on PDF, ironically forwarded on from a PistonHead'r some ten years ago or so. Reckon I sent it to 40 or 50 PH'ers. 
I know a military guy (RM) who was tasked with search and rescue (although obviously just a recovery job) and whilst out and about they came across a couple of looters (which were dealt with then handed over to plod) and a few nondescript guys just looking shifty. He said he was sure they were American but his CO told his men to steer clear.
They had an altercation with one guy who said he was Special Forces but it was obvious to the RM he was a spook. He didn’t have ID so they escorted him to HQ and after a phone call he was on his way.
I remember him telling me all this a week after but at the time we just shrugged it off.
They had an altercation with one guy who said he was Special Forces but it was obvious to the RM he was a spook. He didn’t have ID so they escorted him to HQ and after a phone call he was on his way.
I remember him telling me all this a week after but at the time we just shrugged it off.
bongtom said:
I know a military guy (RM) who was tasked with search and rescue (although obviously just a recovery job) and whilst out and about they came across a couple of looters (which were dealt with then handed over to plod) and a few nondescript guys just looking shifty. He said he was sure they were American but his CO told his men to steer clear.
They had an altercation with one guy who said he was Special Forces but it was obvious to the RM he was a spook. He didn’t have ID so they escorted him to HQ and after a phone call he was on his way.
I remember him telling me all this a week after but at the time we just shrugged it off.
I also remember loads of tales of this from back then. Very shifty, particularly Americans, on-scene and the looters who were travelling up from Liverpool and Manchester to steal the luggage. Despicable individuals.They had an altercation with one guy who said he was Special Forces but it was obvious to the RM he was a spook. He didn’t have ID so they escorted him to HQ and after a phone call he was on his way.
I remember him telling me all this a week after but at the time we just shrugged it off.
tobinen said:
Private Eye has been saying for years and years that it was unlikey to be a Libyan job. Look to Iran.
The problem for the "official" narrative is that everyone knew who it was pretty much from the off and it stayed that way until nearly 3 years after the event. Even when Libya were accused there was a whole heap of WTF?The Helsinki warning, operation autumn leaves, Dalkamoni, Khreesat's barometric radio bombs and the missing samsonite suitcase-it all points/pointed to Ahmed Jibril and the PFLP-GC
I don't doubt that Libya may have had some involvement, their state sponsorship of terrorism was a very tangled web so it wouldn't surprise me.
But when you have a bunch of known terrorists, building bombs in ghetto blasters to bring down aeroplanes and one of them is in a brown samsonite suitcase which gets away from the investigation. Then you get a warning that is strong enough that a lot of American government officials cancel their christmas flight home on a plane that is brought down by a bomb in a ghetto blaster in a brown hard-shell samsonite suitcase
Oh yeah, it was the Libyans that did it with a timer based bomb that went through 3 different baggage facilities, 3 airports and 3 different planes. Oh and the star witness who remembered the guy who bought the clothes in the suitcase years ago was paid a few million for his troubles and originally identified a completely different person.
Chinny-reckon is I believe, the phrase.
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