Stock, non-Z06 (manual) C5 vs. ZR1
Discussion
Having not driven a C5, I don't know, but wonder what's the difference between it (manual - I'll not entertain Automatic!) and a ZR1 in terms of drive?
The engine is slightly lower powered (340hp vs 375hp) - and will sound quite subdued compared to the ZR1's 7070 redline :-)
But is it as good/fun/quick to drive? Does it brake better; is it in stock form stiffer (and noticably so) - or do I need FX51 or whatever they call it?
Reason I'm asking is at some point (maybe next year!) I want to add a C5 to my stable. Although ideally I'd go for a Z06 :-) I'm wondering if a C5, stocker in manual would be fun considering I'd still have the ZR1 in tow...
(all this written idly working from home on a pissing-down Monday afternoon... :p)
The engine is slightly lower powered (340hp vs 375hp) - and will sound quite subdued compared to the ZR1's 7070 redline :-)
But is it as good/fun/quick to drive? Does it brake better; is it in stock form stiffer (and noticably so) - or do I need FX51 or whatever they call it?
Reason I'm asking is at some point (maybe next year!) I want to add a C5 to my stable. Although ideally I'd go for a Z06 :-) I'm wondering if a C5, stocker in manual would be fun considering I'd still have the ZR1 in tow...
(all this written idly working from home on a pissing-down Monday afternoon... :p)
The stock C5 coupe with Z51 suspension would be a quieter, comfier drive than a ZR1 providing you've ditched the runflats. I suspect that in terms of outright performance you'll find little difference between a standard C5 and a standard ZR1, particularly if it was an early Z. Nige's right, you'll want a Z06 !
Yup, when I looked at the same comparison a while back overall performance came out just about identical with the trade-off of power vs weight. C5 chassis is good and solid.
Seems a similar debate will run for C5 Z06 vs stock C6 although I think it's inevitable the newer car will be better in some respects. Such is progress.
Seems a similar debate will run for C5 Z06 vs stock C6 although I think it's inevitable the newer car will be better in some respects. Such is progress.
The C5 uses a vast amount of parts less than a C4 and is far more rigid. The LS1 produces 345bhp and 350bhp on later models.
Autocar tested the ZR1 in 1989 and did 0-60 in 5.6, 30-70 in 4.5 and 50-70 in 6.9, weighing 1571kg (about the same as my Z28). The 1998 manual C5 did 0-60 in 5.3, 30-70 in 3.9 and 50-70 in 11.9 (in 6th????) if that helps. The C5 weighs 100kg less. Some of the American mags have turned in 4.8's for the later C5's.
The Z06 is lighter than the stock C5 through lighter wheels and thinner and less glass. It also has lower gearing than the stock C5. With 405bhp, it's considerably faster than a stock manual C5. GM claimed 3.8 to 60 but it was more realistically low 4's.
The gearbox is a bit of a pig and an aftermarket shifter is a good idea. Surprisingly, Z06 accounts for 10% of Corvette production and there's little difference in used prices in the US between the Z06 and coupe.
The thing you have to get right is the suspension. Stock Corvette is FE1 in the US. The Z51 considerably improves the track times of any Corvette. I think the Euro Vettes get Z51 as standard but stand to be corrected. The Z06 uses specific FE4 suspension which combined with the Z06's better rigidity, makes it a graeat handling car.
One unsung hero in the US Corvette lineup is the 99/00 Hardtop which preceded the Z06. Using a stock LS1, it had Z51, 6 speed and low rear axle ratio as standard and was supposed to be the stripped out sports car. In reality, it handled better but was no faster over the 1/4 - hence the Z06.
The only thing you have to remember about the Z06 is that on a hot day, you might long for a removable targa and the later 350bhp C5's with the right options are pretty good cars. There's also the full convertible for the optimists.
Autocar tested the ZR1 in 1989 and did 0-60 in 5.6, 30-70 in 4.5 and 50-70 in 6.9, weighing 1571kg (about the same as my Z28). The 1998 manual C5 did 0-60 in 5.3, 30-70 in 3.9 and 50-70 in 11.9 (in 6th????) if that helps. The C5 weighs 100kg less. Some of the American mags have turned in 4.8's for the later C5's.
The Z06 is lighter than the stock C5 through lighter wheels and thinner and less glass. It also has lower gearing than the stock C5. With 405bhp, it's considerably faster than a stock manual C5. GM claimed 3.8 to 60 but it was more realistically low 4's.
The gearbox is a bit of a pig and an aftermarket shifter is a good idea. Surprisingly, Z06 accounts for 10% of Corvette production and there's little difference in used prices in the US between the Z06 and coupe.
The thing you have to get right is the suspension. Stock Corvette is FE1 in the US. The Z51 considerably improves the track times of any Corvette. I think the Euro Vettes get Z51 as standard but stand to be corrected. The Z06 uses specific FE4 suspension which combined with the Z06's better rigidity, makes it a graeat handling car.
One unsung hero in the US Corvette lineup is the 99/00 Hardtop which preceded the Z06. Using a stock LS1, it had Z51, 6 speed and low rear axle ratio as standard and was supposed to be the stripped out sports car. In reality, it handled better but was no faster over the 1/4 - hence the Z06.
The only thing you have to remember about the Z06 is that on a hot day, you might long for a removable targa and the later 350bhp C5's with the right options are pretty good cars. There's also the full convertible for the optimists.
Autocar figures are rubbish for a ZR1. I've got a timeslip of my (at the time) 110000 mile L98 86 auto at 5.73 0-60, the only mods being no cat and dual exhaust system. R&T used to reckon 5.7 for the 86 too.
I've seen various figures for the ZR1 but worst I'd expect to see on the 0-60 run would be very low fives. For reference the L98 is quoted as 230bhp in 86 and for a 90 ZR1 it's about 385bhp. I think an improvement of more than 0.1 of a second would be expected...
I've seen various figures for the ZR1 but worst I'd expect to see on the 0-60 run would be very low fives. For reference the L98 is quoted as 230bhp in 86 and for a 90 ZR1 it's about 385bhp. I think an improvement of more than 0.1 of a second would be expected...
Cheers guys for your comments.
As for that Autocar test (I have it btw, thanks to ebay), perhaps they tested it cold, i.e. before the secondary injection system came in [this gives the ZR1 similar performance to an L98, apparently].
On old, hard Goodyear GS-Cs I managed 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, and that's a 100% stock motor.
Oh - I've just thought: perhaps the Autocar boys were piddling around and the 1-4 shift came in
As for that Autocar test (I have it btw, thanks to ebay), perhaps they tested it cold, i.e. before the secondary injection system came in [this gives the ZR1 similar performance to an L98, apparently].
On old, hard Goodyear GS-Cs I managed 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, and that's a 100% stock motor.
Oh - I've just thought: perhaps the Autocar boys were piddling around and the 1-4 shift came in
Or perhaps as usual, they should stick to testing hot hatches, clearly they cannot manage proper hardcore American muscle!
Thanks for the correction Nige.
As for Joes 4.16 - I think he did (or his son did, who was driving at the time) this at Trax 2003 - same place I had my run.
I've seen Z06 times quoted as 170mph vs the 'standard' C5 max of 175mph. Shorter gearing?
Thanks for the correction Nige.
As for Joes 4.16 - I think he did (or his son did, who was driving at the time) this at Trax 2003 - same place I had my run.
I've seen Z06 times quoted as 170mph vs the 'standard' C5 max of 175mph. Shorter gearing?
I picked up one of the original box sets that the ZR1's were sold with last year
The original/official figures quoted are
0 - 30 1.81
0 - 60 4.3
1/4 mile 12.9@110.9
0-100 10.8
You sure that article wasn't done by JC??
I still have loads of road and track mags and Performance car mag - they tested around these figures. As for top speed, that crown has just been lost to the C6 Z06. Still has the endurance records though (for a real production car).
The original/official figures quoted are
0 - 30 1.81
0 - 60 4.3
1/4 mile 12.9@110.9
0-100 10.8
You sure that article wasn't done by JC??
I still have loads of road and track mags and Performance car mag - they tested around these figures. As for top speed, that crown has just been lost to the C6 Z06. Still has the endurance records though (for a real production car).
Hi Fran,
The Z06 is rated at 171 I think and the Coupe at 176, the difference is because the Coupe has a better (lower) drag coefficient than the hardtop.
My Z06 did 169.4 over the 1.25 miles at Elvington and that was at about the rev limit in 5th.
I was reading about the ZR1 the other night and I believe that they were about $75,000 when new.....which makes you think that was 15 years ago and the C6 Z06 is going to be $65,000.....
The Z06 is rated at 171 I think and the Coupe at 176, the difference is because the Coupe has a better (lower) drag coefficient than the hardtop.
My Z06 did 169.4 over the 1.25 miles at Elvington and that was at about the rev limit in 5th.
I was reading about the ZR1 the other night and I believe that they were about $75,000 when new.....which makes you think that was 15 years ago and the C6 Z06 is going to be $65,000.....
The Zr1 was $32k base vet price plus the $32k ZR1 option. Although I understand a lot were shifted for $100k. UNO the old supply and demand thing, along with the 'I must have one before anyone else'
I bet some of the first Z06's will be shifted above RRP as well. Still a lot of car/performance for the money though.
I bet some of the first Z06's will be shifted above RRP as well. Still a lot of car/performance for the money though.
franv8 said:
Autocar figures are rubbish for a ZR1. I've got a timeslip of my (at the time) 110000 mile L98 86 auto at 5.73 0-60, the only mods being no cat and dual exhaust system. R&T used to reckon 5.7 for the 86 too.
I've seen various figures for the ZR1 but worst I'd expect to see on the 0-60 run would be very low fives. For reference the L98 is quoted as 230bhp in 86 and for a 90 ZR1 it's about 385bhp. I think an improvement of more than 0.1 of a second would be expected...
American tests of the ZR1 at the time put the 0-60 time into the mid 4s, using a powershift technique not employed by UK testers. That is, not lifting your foot off the gas pedal when shifting.
>> Edited by JenkinsComp on Friday 24th June 14:32
You can settle your arguements at Shoreham on Friday.....just follow the link.
www.corvetteclub.org.uk/index.php?article=1514
www.corvetteclub.org.uk/index.php?article=1514
JenkinsComp said:
American tests of the ZR1 at the time put the 0-60 time into the mid 4s, using a powershift technique not employed by UK testers. That is, not lifting your foot off the gas pedal when shifting.
>> Edited by JenkinsComp on Friday 24th June 14:32
Really? Where did you hear about that?
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