Need some info on V8/V12 vantages...
Discussion
So am doing my research as I may soon be in the market for an early V12 vantage or V8 Vantage.
I nearly bought a V8 vantage a few years back, but the private seller pulled out last minute and I averted funds to other things so never had one.
Now then, early V8's are very affordable. But not sure I want a car that old. I have also noticed that there is now the V8S available. This looks a lot nicer but seems a lot less available. V12 vantage - Is this worth the extra or is it just pub bragging rights?
Any recommended main dealers, forums or groups that I could get talking to and possibly find private would be appreciated.
Any help or helpful conversation would be much appreciated.
TIA.
I nearly bought a V8 vantage a few years back, but the private seller pulled out last minute and I averted funds to other things so never had one.
Now then, early V8's are very affordable. But not sure I want a car that old. I have also noticed that there is now the V8S available. This looks a lot nicer but seems a lot less available. V12 vantage - Is this worth the extra or is it just pub bragging rights?
Any recommended main dealers, forums or groups that I could get talking to and possibly find private would be appreciated.
Any help or helpful conversation would be much appreciated.
TIA.
I've had an early V8 Vantage for 3 years now and I wouldn't say it has ever felt 'old' it really depends on how much you want to spend on something which for most people is a weekend toy, prices for the early V8 like mine (2006) are becoming very affordable now and the depreciation has pretty much flattened out.
I briefly considered a V12 but didn't want the servicing costs and the infamous ceramic discs, if you buy a V12 you need a healthy servicing fund depending on how long you keep it, certainly in comparison to a V8.
You should get most of the advice you need on here, plus the very detailed book which is available through the forum is a worthwhile investment pre car purchase.
I briefly considered a V12 but didn't want the servicing costs and the infamous ceramic discs, if you buy a V12 you need a healthy servicing fund depending on how long you keep it, certainly in comparison to a V8.
You should get most of the advice you need on here, plus the very detailed book which is available through the forum is a worthwhile investment pre car purchase.
Ceramic brakes would always dissuade me from a V12.
Can’t see the performance difference between a 4.7 V8 and V12 that would justify a £10k outlay on the brakes.
For me a good chunk of the joy of ownership is just sitting and looking at the sheer beauty of the design. Speed is almost immaterial - it makes my heart miss a beat just sitting on the drive.
Would I pay £20k in additional capital plus the brake monkey on my back for a V12 over a V8 ?
No
However - and a big caveat - I’ve never driven a V12 and would no doubt be singing from the V12 hymn sheet if I had !
If I had the money and opportunity though a V12S manual would be in the garage, assuming such a beast exists.
Can’t see the performance difference between a 4.7 V8 and V12 that would justify a £10k outlay on the brakes.
For me a good chunk of the joy of ownership is just sitting and looking at the sheer beauty of the design. Speed is almost immaterial - it makes my heart miss a beat just sitting on the drive.
Would I pay £20k in additional capital plus the brake monkey on my back for a V12 over a V8 ?
No
However - and a big caveat - I’ve never driven a V12 and would no doubt be singing from the V12 hymn sheet if I had !
If I had the money and opportunity though a V12S manual would be in the garage, assuming such a beast exists.
New into it myself, and coming from a TVR Tuscan the Vantage feels slow..... but so much more complete, and not much slower in the real world.
As for V12, they are special.... but what are you buying a vantage for? For me it was in the beauty and the fact it’s and Aston.....
I ended up buying from a dealer as they had the car I wanted and managed to get in before close down so I think I got a goodies deal... if you’re based anywhere near Nottingham (I’m Cambridge so 80 miles away) go see Jake, I couldn’t fault them and there prep work was second to none.
As for V12, they are special.... but what are you buying a vantage for? For me it was in the beauty and the fact it’s and Aston.....
I ended up buying from a dealer as they had the car I wanted and managed to get in before close down so I think I got a goodies deal... if you’re based anywhere near Nottingham (I’m Cambridge so 80 miles away) go see Jake, I couldn’t fault them and there prep work was second to none.
A V12 Vantage (6 speed manual) is a special landmark model, probably the last N/A V12 manual in a (smallish) sports car.
If finance is a consideration, then certainly the ceramic brakes have become more of a concern on here recently.
Fewer V12V cars made than V8V.
From a performance point of view, well the 4.7 V8 cannot be driven on the road, with foot to the floor for many seconds at a time.
V12V obviously a more powerful car, but how much of that extra power can really be used?
already picking up some key points there... If I buy a V12 brakes will cost me £10,000 when they wear out! If that is the case then a V12 is off the table.
I am concerned the V8 won't be enough car for me and may be a bit too refined? What year did the auto gear box get updated? I really wouldn't have a conventional automatic.
To the reply above that said McGurk are good, they certainly do look reputable but from conversations a few years back there are considerable mark ups to buying private and at a dealer.
Is there much difference in the roadster to the coupe version?
Thanks for the replies so far.
I am concerned the V8 won't be enough car for me and may be a bit too refined? What year did the auto gear box get updated? I really wouldn't have a conventional automatic.
To the reply above that said McGurk are good, they certainly do look reputable but from conversations a few years back there are considerable mark ups to buying private and at a dealer.
Is there much difference in the roadster to the coupe version?
Thanks for the replies so far.
I have luckily had a 2007 V8, a 2013 V8S and now a 2009 V12.
Each has been manual and the main thing to say is that they have all been excellent at delivering what I think you expect from driving them. It goes beyond the dynamics itself.
I put the S improvements over the standard car largely down to the car being newer and I think regular advise says get the newest car you can afford and I think that is pretty true. (Rarity of a particular model affects the price quite a bit and will probably last the lifetime of the car)
The purer lines of the earlier car or the brutish style of the S and V12 are both awsome but the V12 is just more of the things that make the others so great. The extra pull of the engine is very noticeable through the rev range and is a true stump puller.
The handling is meant to be less good but in only spirited driving rather than lunacy that counts for nothing in my book and I haven't noticed.
All sound excellent but the added rarity of the V12 sound just clinches that as well.
The brake disc issue is not the problem I think some mention (Im not an expert) but there are disc re-surfacing companies that make the repair costs in the event of disc ware/damage much more similar to steel replacement costs. The discs are likely to last much longer than steel ones at moderate and fast road driving than steel ones. (track days not so well)
Buy any model and you will not be disappointed. The difference in price between V8s and V12s is likely to remain fairly constant from perspective of 'investment' especially manual V12 will be a slight premium.
Each has been manual and the main thing to say is that they have all been excellent at delivering what I think you expect from driving them. It goes beyond the dynamics itself.
I put the S improvements over the standard car largely down to the car being newer and I think regular advise says get the newest car you can afford and I think that is pretty true. (Rarity of a particular model affects the price quite a bit and will probably last the lifetime of the car)
The purer lines of the earlier car or the brutish style of the S and V12 are both awsome but the V12 is just more of the things that make the others so great. The extra pull of the engine is very noticeable through the rev range and is a true stump puller.
The handling is meant to be less good but in only spirited driving rather than lunacy that counts for nothing in my book and I haven't noticed.
All sound excellent but the added rarity of the V12 sound just clinches that as well.
The brake disc issue is not the problem I think some mention (Im not an expert) but there are disc re-surfacing companies that make the repair costs in the event of disc ware/damage much more similar to steel replacement costs. The discs are likely to last much longer than steel ones at moderate and fast road driving than steel ones. (track days not so well)
Buy any model and you will not be disappointed. The difference in price between V8s and V12s is likely to remain fairly constant from perspective of 'investment' especially manual V12 will be a slight premium.
leman600 said:
I have luckily had a 2007 V8, a 2013 V8S and now a 2009 V12.
Each has been manual and the main thing to say is that they have all been excellent at delivering what I think you expect from driving them. It goes beyond the dynamics itself.
I put the S improvements over the standard car largely down to the car being newer and I think regular advise says get the newest car you can afford and I think that is pretty true. (Rarity of a particular model affects the price quite a bit and will probably last the lifetime of the car)
The purer lines of the earlier car or the brutish style of the S and V12 are both awsome but the V12 is just more of the things that make the others so great. The extra pull of the engine is very noticeable through the rev range and is a true stump puller.
The handling is meant to be less good but in only spirited driving rather than lunacy that counts for nothing in my book and I haven't noticed.
All sound excellent but the added rarity of the V12 sound just clinches that as well.
The brake disc issue is not the problem I think some mention (Im not an expert) but there are disc re-surfacing companies that make the repair costs in the event of disc ware/damage much more similar to steel replacement costs. The discs are likely to last much longer than steel ones at moderate and fast road driving than steel ones. (track days not so well)
Buy any model and you will not be disappointed. The difference in price between V8s and V12s is likely to remain fairly constant from perspective of 'investment' especially manual V12 will be a slight premium.
All of the above, however I reckon the perfect package in terms of costs, looks and performance is a 2009/2010 V8V 4.7 Sport Pack manual with 200 cell cats.Each has been manual and the main thing to say is that they have all been excellent at delivering what I think you expect from driving them. It goes beyond the dynamics itself.
I put the S improvements over the standard car largely down to the car being newer and I think regular advise says get the newest car you can afford and I think that is pretty true. (Rarity of a particular model affects the price quite a bit and will probably last the lifetime of the car)
The purer lines of the earlier car or the brutish style of the S and V12 are both awsome but the V12 is just more of the things that make the others so great. The extra pull of the engine is very noticeable through the rev range and is a true stump puller.
The handling is meant to be less good but in only spirited driving rather than lunacy that counts for nothing in my book and I haven't noticed.
All sound excellent but the added rarity of the V12 sound just clinches that as well.
The brake disc issue is not the problem I think some mention (Im not an expert) but there are disc re-surfacing companies that make the repair costs in the event of disc ware/damage much more similar to steel replacement costs. The discs are likely to last much longer than steel ones at moderate and fast road driving than steel ones. (track days not so well)
Buy any model and you will not be disappointed. The difference in price between V8s and V12s is likely to remain fairly constant from perspective of 'investment' especially manual V12 will be a slight premium.
That’s what I have ended up with anyway and obviously talking up my own book !
V8 owners will say ...
Don’t buy a v12 , discs are 10k . They are too fast , sills spoil the looks .
V12 owners will say , brakes are fantastic , torque is stunning and the sills and bonnet vents add “muscle “
At 30k my v8 could have done with new discs . From a dealer £2.5 k
Carbon brakes can be had for , say £5k (not o.e. ) and last 80000.
Too fast .. don’t think so
Looks .. personal choice . Some v8 owners put sills on , some v12 owners take them off .
No real losers in this game , both stunning cars
Don’t buy a v12 , discs are 10k . They are too fast , sills spoil the looks .
V12 owners will say , brakes are fantastic , torque is stunning and the sills and bonnet vents add “muscle “
At 30k my v8 could have done with new discs . From a dealer £2.5 k
Carbon brakes can be had for , say £5k (not o.e. ) and last 80000.
Too fast .. don’t think so
Looks .. personal choice . Some v8 owners put sills on , some v12 owners take them off .
No real losers in this game , both stunning cars
swisstoni said:
Could the hugely expensive V12 brakes be swapped out for something more manageable? (And swapped back if the owner wanted to return the car to stock at some point)?
new callipers, rotors but otherwise no reasonhas been done
worth a google search if u r serious (but not worth the time & effort IMHO)
dont get too caught up on the carbon disks
only real risk is tracking the car regularly as you WILL wear them out, or chemical degradation from washing
Graze
Graze01 said:
swisstoni said:
Could the hugely expensive V12 brakes be swapped out for something more manageable? (And swapped back if the owner wanted to return the car to stock at some point)?
new callipers, rotors but otherwise no reasonhas been done
worth a google search if u r serious (but not worth the time & effort IMHO)
dont get too caught up on the carbon disks
only real risk is tracking the car regularly as you WILL wear them out, or chemical degradation from washing
Graze
JonnyCJ said:
All of the above, however I reckon the perfect package in terms of costs, looks and performance is a 2009/2010 V8V 4.7 Sport Pack manual with 200 cell cats.
That’s what I have ended up with anyway and obviously talking up my own book !
What is the sport pack and 200 cell cat?That’s what I have ended up with anyway and obviously talking up my own book !
I am a massive fan of sills and vents on the V12. So anything to sport up the look of a V8 is a winner IMO
I'm on my second V12 manual, original 2011 manual now one of the last AMR manuals. I wouldn't worry about the brakes both of mine have done several track days and the pads are barely worn. I agree that it will be an expensive day if you don't look after them particularly when cleaning but if they had been steel brakes I am sure I would have been through a few sets of discs and pads. As for the driving experience these are epic cars, including the V8's. Drive as many as you can before making up your mind. Peronally I have no regrets but the sports seats were the must have option when I specced my AMR.
I’ve had my V8V (2009 4.7 Coupe, manual, Sports Pack) from new. I love it, every bit as much after all these years as the day I took delivery. The only car that has seriously tempted me from it is a V12V. I’ve driven the V12V in its original 6-speed manual form. It’s an epic car, and I’d love to have one. But I still have my V8V.
The “pros” for the V12V are well-documented. It’s faster, the sound, feel and exoticness of a V12 engine, the rarity, etc. So I’ll focus on the “pros” of the V8V here.
The V8V is better balanced. The V12 engine is 220 lbs/100kg heavier than the V8 engine. That’s a lot, and all that extra weight sits both farther forward and higher in the chassis. The V8 engine is mounted entirely behind the front axle line – truly front-mid-engined – whereas the V12 has 4 of its cylinders sitting forward of it. The V12 is a taller engine (it’s a 60 degree-V, vs the flatter 90-degree V8). The V12 has a wet-sump, while the V8 has a dry sump, so it’s mounted lower. The V8V has a 49F/51R weight distribution. Big credit to Aston for the V12V’s weight distribution being 51F/49/R (V12VS is 52F/48R) -- they made huge efforts to keep the balance from being too nose heavy. The result is that the V12V is a remarkably well-balanced car, especially for a fairly small car with such a huge engine in its nose. Which is cool. The V8V, though, is just better balanced, with its slight rear weight bias (as favored by Ferrari). The V12V’s considerable extra weight, sitting farther forward and higher in the nose, is definitely noticeable.
I think the V8V, especially the 4.7, is plenty fast. On a public road, opportunities to use all of its performance are very rare. It’s not insanely fast, though, which I think is a good thing because you can drive it pretty hard – which is where the fun is – without acting like a complete lunatic. The V12V does feel like a beast (which is fun) in a way the V8V doesn’t, but magazine tests show the actual difference isn’t as great as people think it is (at least not until the speeds are well over 100 mph). Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there isn’t a real performance difference, it’s just not as big as many think (or as it feels). Both the V8 and the V12 sound absolutely fantastic.
Aesthetics: I think the VH-generation Vantage is one of the best-looking cars ever made, and certainly over the last several decades. It is, IMO, most perfect in its original form, with the original sill and front/rear valences – the 4.3 and early 4.7 cars (until MY12.25). I also prefer the appearance of the brighter, brushed finish of the V8V’s instruments – they’re exquisite and made from a plank of aluminum, and the brushed finish shows this off better than the graphite finish in the V12V.
So… they’re both truly wonderful cars, to drive, to look at and to own. You really can’t go wrong. I’d love to have a V12V. But I love my V8V and I’m keeping it.
The “pros” for the V12V are well-documented. It’s faster, the sound, feel and exoticness of a V12 engine, the rarity, etc. So I’ll focus on the “pros” of the V8V here.
The V8V is better balanced. The V12 engine is 220 lbs/100kg heavier than the V8 engine. That’s a lot, and all that extra weight sits both farther forward and higher in the chassis. The V8 engine is mounted entirely behind the front axle line – truly front-mid-engined – whereas the V12 has 4 of its cylinders sitting forward of it. The V12 is a taller engine (it’s a 60 degree-V, vs the flatter 90-degree V8). The V12 has a wet-sump, while the V8 has a dry sump, so it’s mounted lower. The V8V has a 49F/51R weight distribution. Big credit to Aston for the V12V’s weight distribution being 51F/49/R (V12VS is 52F/48R) -- they made huge efforts to keep the balance from being too nose heavy. The result is that the V12V is a remarkably well-balanced car, especially for a fairly small car with such a huge engine in its nose. Which is cool. The V8V, though, is just better balanced, with its slight rear weight bias (as favored by Ferrari). The V12V’s considerable extra weight, sitting farther forward and higher in the nose, is definitely noticeable.
I think the V8V, especially the 4.7, is plenty fast. On a public road, opportunities to use all of its performance are very rare. It’s not insanely fast, though, which I think is a good thing because you can drive it pretty hard – which is where the fun is – without acting like a complete lunatic. The V12V does feel like a beast (which is fun) in a way the V8V doesn’t, but magazine tests show the actual difference isn’t as great as people think it is (at least not until the speeds are well over 100 mph). Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there isn’t a real performance difference, it’s just not as big as many think (or as it feels). Both the V8 and the V12 sound absolutely fantastic.
Aesthetics: I think the VH-generation Vantage is one of the best-looking cars ever made, and certainly over the last several decades. It is, IMO, most perfect in its original form, with the original sill and front/rear valences – the 4.3 and early 4.7 cars (until MY12.25). I also prefer the appearance of the brighter, brushed finish of the V8V’s instruments – they’re exquisite and made from a plank of aluminum, and the brushed finish shows this off better than the graphite finish in the V12V.
So… they’re both truly wonderful cars, to drive, to look at and to own. You really can’t go wrong. I’d love to have a V12V. But I love my V8V and I’m keeping it.
Robbie_FRS said:
JonnyCJ said:
All of the above, however I reckon the perfect package in terms of costs, looks and performance is a 2009/2010 V8V 4.7 Sport Pack manual with 200 cell cats.
That’s what I have ended up with anyway and obviously talking up my own book !
What is the sport pack and 200 cell cat?That’s what I have ended up with anyway and obviously talking up my own book !
I am a massive fan of sills and vents on the V12. So anything to sport up the look of a V8 is a winner IMO
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