Discussion
Just got my car back from the garage after MOT work, to find they've chipped, scuffed great big chunks of paint work off the chin spoiler, got oil all over the new leather and dog hairs all on the roof!
Then the cheeky Bast**d said well its an 'OLD CAR, these thing happen!'.
I'd paid by cheque, which has now been cancelled.
I'm fuming.
Then the cheeky Bast**d said well its an 'OLD CAR, these thing happen!'.
I'd paid by cheque, which has now been cancelled.
I'm fuming.
the mind boggles !!! 
taff_o said:
Just got my car back from the garage after MOT work, to find they've chipped, scuffed great big chunks of paint work off the chin spoiler, got oil all over the new leather and dog hairs all on the roof!
Then the cheeky Bast**d said well its an 'OLD CAR, these thing happen!'.
I'd paid by cheque, which has now been cancelled.
I'm fuming.
I know where you're coming from.
A garage trashed mine too, when changing the clutch last year. I should have known better.
I normally avoid the 'professionals' at all costs.
Most are just Gibbons who couldn't give a toss about your pride and joy.
I was in the small claims court recently acting as expert witness for a mate who was suing someone who cancelled a cheque.
The judge said there are only 3 possible circumstances in which a cheque can be cancelled.
Fraud.
Faiure to suppply goods or services paid for.
Goods or services grossly misdescribed.
You could try for number three, but I reckon you'd be well advised to try and negotiate.
Ask them if they are prepared to make good the damage to your car. Obtain quotes to back up your claim.
Viz:
Repair or replacement of spoiler.
Painting of same.
professionally cleaned leather.
Valeted roof.
Good luck, try and keep it friendly.
The judge said there are only 3 possible circumstances in which a cheque can be cancelled.
Fraud.
Faiure to suppply goods or services paid for.
Goods or services grossly misdescribed.
You could try for number three, but I reckon you'd be well advised to try and negotiate.
Ask them if they are prepared to make good the damage to your car. Obtain quotes to back up your claim.
Viz:
Repair or replacement of spoiler.
Painting of same.
professionally cleaned leather.
Valeted roof.
Good luck, try and keep it friendly.
Taff -
I think tallbloke's advice is quite wise and most probably on the button.
If you commission services you are duty bound in law to pay for those services. If those services that you commission are faulty or sub standard, that should be something for you and the provider to discuss to solve the dispute. There are certain options for you to follow if the dispute cannot be solved amicably - including trading standards and private litigation. Technically if the work is so bad that the provider has basically deceived you, it should be a police matter concerning the criminal offence of obtaining money or property by deception, (section 13 of the Theft Act? - not sure), but the police will always argue that it is nothing to do with them.
Whilst in their workshops, garages have a duty of care towards your property, and it must be returned to you in the same state as it entered their premises. You only have civil action against them available to you if you cannot come to some agreement. It could be said that duty of care also extends to repairs undertaken, but this is most likely only applicable if work is so badly done it affects the operation of the vehicle, or it does not operate! Take legal advice if you need to.
As tallbloke has said, write to the garage formally, but keep it friendly and polite. Ask them how they propose to remedy the situation. Probably best in the immediate moment not to start hurling costs at them. Ideally send it to them by recorded delivery or registered post. I would also suggest you reinstate your payment to them for work done.
Also get someone else to look at your car and note/itemise the damage.
I have a similar situation currently on the go regarding damage to my Ferrari. I will try to send you a copy of my letter to the garage concerned, hoping that it will help you in your efforts.
JJ
I think tallbloke's advice is quite wise and most probably on the button.
If you commission services you are duty bound in law to pay for those services. If those services that you commission are faulty or sub standard, that should be something for you and the provider to discuss to solve the dispute. There are certain options for you to follow if the dispute cannot be solved amicably - including trading standards and private litigation. Technically if the work is so bad that the provider has basically deceived you, it should be a police matter concerning the criminal offence of obtaining money or property by deception, (section 13 of the Theft Act? - not sure), but the police will always argue that it is nothing to do with them.
Whilst in their workshops, garages have a duty of care towards your property, and it must be returned to you in the same state as it entered their premises. You only have civil action against them available to you if you cannot come to some agreement. It could be said that duty of care also extends to repairs undertaken, but this is most likely only applicable if work is so badly done it affects the operation of the vehicle, or it does not operate! Take legal advice if you need to.
As tallbloke has said, write to the garage formally, but keep it friendly and polite. Ask them how they propose to remedy the situation. Probably best in the immediate moment not to start hurling costs at them. Ideally send it to them by recorded delivery or registered post. I would also suggest you reinstate your payment to them for work done.
Also get someone else to look at your car and note/itemise the damage.
I have a similar situation currently on the go regarding damage to my Ferrari. I will try to send you a copy of my letter to the garage concerned, hoping that it will help you in your efforts.
JJ
Hmm. I always new Wedge owners were a nice bunch. I couldn't agree more with the legal aspects raised, but you have to consider the best way to get a solution. If you pay the bill, you have lost your only bargaining strength, and you will have to chase them, possibly through the courts, wasting your time and your money and dealing with all the aggro. I'd cancel the check, and let them spend the time and money, and have the aggro chasing you. It's amazing how quickly companies will discuss things with you when they haven't been paid.
I think you should be very careful here.
Witholding payment for services rendered is not a good idea and is not generally supported by the law. Technically, the garage has a lien against your property until you have paid. You have taken back possession of the car, so that is in your favour for the moment. As I say, for the moment.
I believe the garage could within the law come and take your car away and hold it until such time as you have paid them - or ultimately dispose of it, retain what is owed to them plus expenses (which could be enourmous) and return the remainder to you.
As you have cancelled your cheque, and on the presumption that you have not written them a new one or paid them in some other way, I suggest you write to them explaining that you are unhappy with the work that they have done to your car due to the damage they have caused to it, and are therefore witholding payment until such time as you can come to some agreement as to how they rectify the damage to your satisfaction. This could be held to be an indication from you that you are prepared to pay. Indeed you could actually state that you undertake to pay as and when they have rectified the damage or put forward some plan to remedy the situation, to your satisfaction.
The law may still look dimly upon non-payment, and it will treat the two sides of the story essentially as separate matters. You commissioned the garage to carry out a, b, and c; and they did that. In the process they occassioned x,y, and z of damage to your vehicle whilst it was in their care.
The important point here is that the garage have a duty of care to your property whilst it is in their possesssion and the law will hold them responsible. But you must be able to show that the damage was NOT there when you lodged the car with them. If they deny all knowledge, it could end up as your word against theirs.
Take a witness every time you go to see them, if you do, and send all letters by recorded delivery or perhaps better still - registered post.
Stay as polite and as plaesant as possible at all times - which of course can be difficult.
If you are not getting very far with the garage through your own efforts, you might like to visit a solicitor who offers an initial free consultation. Then you can weigh up the pros and cons and costs etc..
Is anyone on here a solicitor - Pistonheads overall? Do TVRCC haved a tame lawyer?
Solicitors Pool perhaps?
JJ
Witholding payment for services rendered is not a good idea and is not generally supported by the law. Technically, the garage has a lien against your property until you have paid. You have taken back possession of the car, so that is in your favour for the moment. As I say, for the moment.
I believe the garage could within the law come and take your car away and hold it until such time as you have paid them - or ultimately dispose of it, retain what is owed to them plus expenses (which could be enourmous) and return the remainder to you.
As you have cancelled your cheque, and on the presumption that you have not written them a new one or paid them in some other way, I suggest you write to them explaining that you are unhappy with the work that they have done to your car due to the damage they have caused to it, and are therefore witholding payment until such time as you can come to some agreement as to how they rectify the damage to your satisfaction. This could be held to be an indication from you that you are prepared to pay. Indeed you could actually state that you undertake to pay as and when they have rectified the damage or put forward some plan to remedy the situation, to your satisfaction.
The law may still look dimly upon non-payment, and it will treat the two sides of the story essentially as separate matters. You commissioned the garage to carry out a, b, and c; and they did that. In the process they occassioned x,y, and z of damage to your vehicle whilst it was in their care.
The important point here is that the garage have a duty of care to your property whilst it is in their possesssion and the law will hold them responsible. But you must be able to show that the damage was NOT there when you lodged the car with them. If they deny all knowledge, it could end up as your word against theirs.
Take a witness every time you go to see them, if you do, and send all letters by recorded delivery or perhaps better still - registered post.
Stay as polite and as plaesant as possible at all times - which of course can be difficult.
If you are not getting very far with the garage through your own efforts, you might like to visit a solicitor who offers an initial free consultation. Then you can weigh up the pros and cons and costs etc..
Is anyone on here a solicitor - Pistonheads overall? Do TVRCC haved a tame lawyer?
Solicitors Pool perhaps?
JJ
firefox1712 said:
I believe the garage could within the law come and take your car away and hold it until such time as you have paid them
No. I don't think so. They can pursue through the small claims court or pass it on to a debt collector. Distraint of property would be months and months further down the line.
I think Gerry's advice is right. Use the fact that the cheque has been cancelled and that you have possession of the car as a strong bargaining position.
Recorded delivery is a powerful tool...
I have no real idea what the law migh say under the circumstances. The point I'm making is that whatever the rights and wrongs, following it through the Courts is long, laborious and stressful. If it goes to the wire, you may as well let the garage have the hassle, rather than taking it upon yourself.
If you pay the bill, the garage has no incentive to do anything. If you withhold payment, the garage has an incentive to act and, providing you intend to pay something, you will reach a compromise faster.
If you pay the bill, the garage has no incentive to do anything. If you withhold payment, the garage has an incentive to act and, providing you intend to pay something, you will reach a compromise faster.
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