A380 -Over and out....
Discussion
Lufthansa retire 6 A380's permanently....not exactly a shock given the current state of the industry
https://simpleflying.com/breaking-lufthansa-to-imm...
On another thread, someone said that the dedicated freight version of the A380 was cancelled. Not sure why. But could there be freight conversions of these retired passenger aircraft.
I also understand that in total 4 engines will consume more fuel than a twin with engines of the same size but if an A380 can carry more than double the number of passengers than a twin, whilst flying close to capacity surely it is more efficient? Not sure why, therefore, aircraft are being scrapped after just 8-10 years. The most environmentally unfriendly activities in the automotive world is said to be building them, and scrapping them, maybe it’s the same in the aviation world?
I also understand that in total 4 engines will consume more fuel than a twin with engines of the same size but if an A380 can carry more than double the number of passengers than a twin, whilst flying close to capacity surely it is more efficient? Not sure why, therefore, aircraft are being scrapped after just 8-10 years. The most environmentally unfriendly activities in the automotive world is said to be building them, and scrapping them, maybe it’s the same in the aviation world?
andy97 said:
On another thread, someone said that the dedicated freight version of the A380 was cancelled. Not sure why. But could there be freight conversions of these retired passenger aircraft.
I also understand that in total 4 engines will consume more fuel than a twin with engines of the same size but if an A380 can carry more than double the number of passengers than a twin, whilst flying close to capacity surely it is more efficient? Not sure why, therefore, aircraft are being scrapped after just 8-10 years. The most environmentally unfriendly activities in the automotive world is said to be building them, and scrapping them, maybe it’s the same in the aviation world?
The A380 makes sense if you can fill it, which I recall reading somewhere is about 85% capacity. Anything less than that and it’s loss-making. I also understand that in total 4 engines will consume more fuel than a twin with engines of the same size but if an A380 can carry more than double the number of passengers than a twin, whilst flying close to capacity surely it is more efficient? Not sure why, therefore, aircraft are being scrapped after just 8-10 years. The most environmentally unfriendly activities in the automotive world is said to be building them, and scrapping them, maybe it’s the same in the aviation world?
There will be a lot of 380's parked up gathering dust for many years to come.
I bet Emirates are desperately trying to get out of their remaining A380 orders....
Quantas only now have 2 of their 14 x A380's still flying.
Air France already made the decision to start retiring their fleet of a A380's last year before this current crisis even started.
I bet there won't be many airlines flying the A380 in 18 months time, except for Emirates given the shear number of them they've bought.
I wonder how many airlines wished they'd now bought 747-800's instead, as they could at least earn money from the cargo hold load they can carry when not running carrying a lot of PAX.
I bet Emirates are desperately trying to get out of their remaining A380 orders....
Quantas only now have 2 of their 14 x A380's still flying.
Air France already made the decision to start retiring their fleet of a A380's last year before this current crisis even started.
I bet there won't be many airlines flying the A380 in 18 months time, except for Emirates given the shear number of them they've bought.
I wonder how many airlines wished they'd now bought 747-800's instead, as they could at least earn money from the cargo hold load they can carry when not running carrying a lot of PAX.
Trouble is that empty the A380 is bloomin heavy, which means that the 747 has more payload capacity.
Sad thing is they are by farrrr and away the nicest passenger experience especially upstairs.
Shoe on the other foot and we get out of this mess as quick as we got into it, a lot of passengers want to fly on the 380, I know I do. Showering at 41,000ft with a heated floor. Could mean Emirates nick back a lot of the business they lost to BA when BA dropped prices last year for popular Emirates routes.
Sad thing is they are by farrrr and away the nicest passenger experience especially upstairs.
Shoe on the other foot and we get out of this mess as quick as we got into it, a lot of passengers want to fly on the 380, I know I do. Showering at 41,000ft with a heated floor. Could mean Emirates nick back a lot of the business they lost to BA when BA dropped prices last year for popular Emirates routes.
andy97 said:
On another thread, someone said that the dedicated freight version of the A380 was cancelled. Not sure why. But could there be freight conversions of these retired passenger aircraft.
I also understand that in total 4 engines will consume more fuel than a twin with engines of the same size but if an A380 can carry more than double the number of passengers than a twin, whilst flying close to capacity surely it is more efficient? Not sure why, therefore, aircraft are being scrapped after just 8-10 years. The most environmentally unfriendly activities in the automotive world is said to be building them, and scrapping them, maybe it’s the same in the aviation world?
I believe design compromises were made that complicates making a freight version, the 747 of course was designed to be a freighter from the offset.I also understand that in total 4 engines will consume more fuel than a twin with engines of the same size but if an A380 can carry more than double the number of passengers than a twin, whilst flying close to capacity surely it is more efficient? Not sure why, therefore, aircraft are being scrapped after just 8-10 years. The most environmentally unfriendly activities in the automotive world is said to be building them, and scrapping them, maybe it’s the same in the aviation world?
I'd agree its surely not beyond the wit of man to repurpose the airframes given motive but today, sadly, we do seem to lack the impetus. And people who popularize airplane forums will get the hump with me.
Teddy Lop said:
I believe design compromises were made that complicates making a freight version, the 747 of course was designed to be a freighter from the offset.
I'd agree its surely not beyond the wit of man to repurpose the airframes given motive but today, sadly, we do seem to lack the impetus.
It's a simple case economics and common sense, not impetus.I'd agree its surely not beyond the wit of man to repurpose the airframes given motive but today, sadly, we do seem to lack the impetus.
Why spend millions redesigning, re-engineering and remaking something when an comparable product is already available off the shelf?
aeropilot said:
Teddy Lop said:
I believe design compromises were made that complicates making a freight version, the 747 of course was designed to be a freighter from the offset.
I'd agree its surely not beyond the wit of man to repurpose the airframes given motive but today, sadly, we do seem to lack the impetus.
It's a simple case economics and common sense, not impetus.I'd agree its surely not beyond the wit of man to repurpose the airframes given motive but today, sadly, we do seem to lack the impetus.
Why spend millions redesigning, re-engineering and remaking something when an comparable product is already available off the shelf?
sherman said:
aeropilot said:
Teddy Lop said:
I believe design compromises were made that complicates making a freight version, the 747 of course was designed to be a freighter from the offset.
I'd agree its surely not beyond the wit of man to repurpose the airframes given motive but today, sadly, we do seem to lack the impetus.
It's a simple case economics and common sense, not impetus.I'd agree its surely not beyond the wit of man to repurpose the airframes given motive but today, sadly, we do seem to lack the impetus.
Why spend millions redesigning, re-engineering and remaking something when an comparable product is already available off the shelf?
Freight companies won't be wanting to spend money converting things ir indeed buying things like the A380. All comes to down to cost. We get lots of cargo flights coming over here heading to the States and also into East Midlands Airport and they are all decades old 767s, A300/A310s, BAE ATPs(!), 737s, MD-11s, older 747s etc, so hardly new stuff.
towser44 said:
Freight companies won't be wanting to spend money converting things ir indeed buying things like the A380. All comes to down to cost. We get lots of cargo flights coming over here heading to the States and also into East Midlands Airport and they are all decades old 767s, A300/A310s, BAE ATPs(!), 737s, MD-11s, older 747s etc, so hardly new stuff.
brand new freight airliners are bought in not inconsiderable numbers too, sticker price on a widebody is about $400 million. About the only thing that's keeping the 747 line open.towser44 said:
Freight companies won't be wanting to spend money converting things ir indeed buying things like the A380. All comes to down to cost. We get lots of cargo flights coming over here heading to the States and also into East Midlands Airport and they are all decades old 767s, A300/A310s, BAE ATPs(!), 737s, MD-11s, older 747s etc, so hardly new stuff.
This is the key, Freight companies such as UPS, FED-Ex etc buy old planes because they don't need to have them full to capacity all the time to make them financially viable unlike passenger carriers. UPS has 14 "hot planes" sat on standby every night ready to fly to any US hub in case of an aircraft being out of service, you cant afford to do that if you buy new planes. Freight is also a lot more revenue than passengers so they can afford to run older less efficient planes. jontysafe said:
Trouble is that empty the A380 is bloomin heavy, which means that the 747 has more payload capacity.
Sad thing is they are by farrrr and away the nicest passenger experience especially upstairs.
Shoe on the other foot and we get out of this mess as quick as we got into it, a lot of passengers want to fly on the 380, I know I do. Showering at 41,000ft with a heated floor. Could mean Emirates nick back a lot of the business they lost to BA when BA dropped prices last year for popular Emirates routes.
Love the shower on the 380, wherever possible I'd have 2, one at the start of the journey and another before landing.Sad thing is they are by farrrr and away the nicest passenger experience especially upstairs.
Shoe on the other foot and we get out of this mess as quick as we got into it, a lot of passengers want to fly on the 380, I know I do. Showering at 41,000ft with a heated floor. Could mean Emirates nick back a lot of the business they lost to BA when BA dropped prices last year for popular Emirates routes.
I treated a friend to a return DXB-SIN in F on the 380 for a big birthday a few years ago, was the first time she'd ever flown anything other than economy. Between that and the full bar, complete with bar stools I think the flights might actually have been her high point!
It'll be a shame to lose them, I even did an economy flight on one once LHR-DXB and though not exactly fun it was at least bearable compared with the same on a 777 or A330
Nickyboy said:
This is the key, Freight companies such as UPS, FED-Ex etc buy old planes because they don't need to have them full to capacity all the time to make them financially viable unlike passenger carriers. UPS has 14 "hot planes" sat on standby every night ready to fly to any US hub in case of an aircraft being out of service, you cant afford to do that if you buy new planes. Freight is also a lot more revenue than passengers so they can afford to run older less efficient planes.
is that the same UPS that are halfway through receiving an order of 28 shiney new 747-8F's or a different oneNickyboy said:
This is the key, Freight companies such as UPS, FED-Ex etc buy old planes because they don't need to have them full to capacity all the time to make them financially viable unlike passenger carriers. UPS has 14 "hot planes" sat on standby every night ready to fly to any US hub in case of an aircraft being out of service, you cant afford to do that if you buy new planes. Freight is also a lot more revenue than passengers so they can afford to run older less efficient planes.
But if the bottom has dropped out of the A380 market making second hand ones with low hours cheap to buy, maybe they are a freight option in the future?Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff