Postponement fee for party marquee...
Discussion
We booked and paid a 25% deposit for a marquee for an event that should have happened this weekend. Obviously the situation as is means the event couldn't happen.
Marquee company were asking for the full amount to be paid, but as we could see what was going to happen, we dragged our feet and thankfully didn't pay the full £5k.
They eventually offered to waive their 10% postponement fee, but are demanding the same amount to be paid now, for a re-arranged date in September.
Now, my way of thinking is that if we're still unable to socially gather in September, then basically the event will be cancelled and we forfeit our current 25% deposit. I'm loathe the pay this extra 10% now as if they fold, or the event is cancelled, that will be lost too.
Am i being unfair?
Also, we have not actually signed a contract - does that have any bearing?
Marquee company were asking for the full amount to be paid, but as we could see what was going to happen, we dragged our feet and thankfully didn't pay the full £5k.
They eventually offered to waive their 10% postponement fee, but are demanding the same amount to be paid now, for a re-arranged date in September.
Now, my way of thinking is that if we're still unable to socially gather in September, then basically the event will be cancelled and we forfeit our current 25% deposit. I'm loathe the pay this extra 10% now as if they fold, or the event is cancelled, that will be lost too.
Am i being unfair?
Also, we have not actually signed a contract - does that have any bearing?
It's a double edged sword. If no-one pays them anything, they will possibly go under because of lack of cash. One way round this may be to pay by credit card, then if they do go bump, you will have the possibility of claiming back that way. I would work with them to be pragmatic and reasonable because you really want a win-win situation. I would try and get a written agreement, although contracts can be verbal as well - just difficult to prove.
If you insisted it went ahead. could they deliver anyway?
If you insisted it went ahead. could they deliver anyway?
You could start a pole here, canvas opinions although it might get intense yada yada.
I think the amount you have paid is enough as it is. You have no way of making a definite date at the moment and until you can I would suggest you hold onto your money. I think they are using you to ease their cash flow.
I think the amount you have paid is enough as it is. You have no way of making a definite date at the moment and until you can I would suggest you hold onto your money. I think they are using you to ease their cash flow.
Unbusy said:
You could start a pole here, canvas opinions although it might get intense yada yada.
I think the amount you have paid is enough as it is. You have no way of making a definite date at the moment and until you can I would suggest you hold onto your money. I think they are using you to ease their cash flow.
That's my thoughts exactly.I think the amount you have paid is enough as it is. You have no way of making a definite date at the moment and until you can I would suggest you hold onto your money. I think they are using you to ease their cash flow.
The fact you have signed nothing is I suspect irrelevant, you have paid the deposit, and therefore may be deemed to have accepted their terms. A contract is a two way street. Its likely that by September we will be out of lockdown, but how will you feel if the marquee company say you cant have the marquee, nor deposit back because you haven't paid in full as per our Terms and Conditions and we are now have a different booking?
The unseen cost of the pandemic is the impact on businesses, and of course it's no ones fault. Is it fair that you pay for the marquee, is it fair that the provider goes out of business as they can't provide marquees during their busiest period? The answer to both questions being no, The solution is presumably do try and come up with a deal that keeps both parties happy and they share an element of the cost.
Incidentally what does the unsigned contract say about deposit, payment and cancellation?
The unseen cost of the pandemic is the impact on businesses, and of course it's no ones fault. Is it fair that you pay for the marquee, is it fair that the provider goes out of business as they can't provide marquees during their busiest period? The answer to both questions being no, The solution is presumably do try and come up with a deal that keeps both parties happy and they share an element of the cost.
Incidentally what does the unsigned contract say about deposit, payment and cancellation?
Some basics: in broad summary, a contract can be formed
- by writing (including electronic writing);
- by spoken words (this is an oral contract - the term verbal is misleading because a written contract is verbal - it uses words [Latin verba]);
- by conduct.
Only a few categories of contract specified by various statutes have to be in writing in order to have effect (the most important category being a contract for the sale of land).
In the present case, it may be arguable that the contract has been frustrated, but, as suggested above the fairest and best solution would be a negotiated deal. If looking at the relative injustice associated with risk allocation, query whether the marquee supplier has business interruption insurance.
- by writing (including electronic writing);
- by spoken words (this is an oral contract - the term verbal is misleading because a written contract is verbal - it uses words [Latin verba]);
- by conduct.
Only a few categories of contract specified by various statutes have to be in writing in order to have effect (the most important category being a contract for the sale of land).
In the present case, it may be arguable that the contract has been frustrated, but, as suggested above the fairest and best solution would be a negotiated deal. If looking at the relative injustice associated with risk allocation, query whether the marquee supplier has business interruption insurance.
As Breadvan 72 (one of PH's genuine legal experts) said the legal phraseology is a 'frustrated contract'
This may be of interest, particularly because it refers to CV19 specifically
https://hallellis.co.uk/frustration-legal-contract...
Quote
"Events leading up to frustration
3 (d) banning attendance at event venues following a virus outbreak, such as pubs, clubs, business conference centres or ski fields"
So contact the company and ask the following:
Are they, the marquee company, actually able to perform their side of the 'contract' ie supply, deliver, erect, de-erect, remove the marquee?
I suspect not.
Their staff will not be working because of CV social distancing rules.
Therefore, legally, I think they are chancing it.
I imagine they would be willing to negotiate once all the posturing stops.
This may be of interest, particularly because it refers to CV19 specifically
https://hallellis.co.uk/frustration-legal-contract...
Quote
"Events leading up to frustration
3 (d) banning attendance at event venues following a virus outbreak, such as pubs, clubs, business conference centres or ski fields"
So contact the company and ask the following:
Are they, the marquee company, actually able to perform their side of the 'contract' ie supply, deliver, erect, de-erect, remove the marquee?
I suspect not.
Their staff will not be working because of CV social distancing rules.
Therefore, legally, I think they are chancing it.
I imagine they would be willing to negotiate once all the posturing stops.
Edited by alfaspecial on Friday 10th April 08:16
Edited by alfaspecial on Friday 10th April 08:22
They have had 25% of the cash, and not had to deliver on their side of the contract. They cannot claim that they have any expenditure on your behalf, neither have your actions stopped them from accepting other business, and you have acted in good faith at all times. The postponement fee can only be due should the postponement be at your behest. A government ordered lockdown does not fall into that category. Thats how I would see the legal side.
You have received nothing for your money.
Morally they have received 25% of their seasons cash in advance without the expenditure of supplying any product, they will have received funding for their business rates, their staff will be furloughed, and there are other schemes and loans available should they wish to apply. They may even be insured.
You have received nothing for your money.
Further you are correct to be concerned about them supplying at a later date as they may not be in business and you are unable to know where we will be in September. Also I could not do business with them after they have tried to gouge an unfair payment.
I would so no to the postponement fee, and walk away.
You have received nothing for your money.
Morally they have received 25% of their seasons cash in advance without the expenditure of supplying any product, they will have received funding for their business rates, their staff will be furloughed, and there are other schemes and loans available should they wish to apply. They may even be insured.
You have received nothing for your money.
Further you are correct to be concerned about them supplying at a later date as they may not be in business and you are unable to know where we will be in September. Also I could not do business with them after they have tried to gouge an unfair payment.
I would so no to the postponement fee, and walk away.
Just to add a little bit in here, oral contracts are based on who said what, and importantly, when.
With the very little information available here, my starting point would be that the contract was formed when you paid the deposit (consideration) and that, absent porkies, what you had agreed between you up until then were the agreed terms of the contract.
From that point forward neither party can introduce additional terms, or change already agreed terms, without the consent of the other.
This might guide your thinking.
With the very little information available here, my starting point would be that the contract was formed when you paid the deposit (consideration) and that, absent porkies, what you had agreed between you up until then were the agreed terms of the contract.
From that point forward neither party can introduce additional terms, or change already agreed terms, without the consent of the other.
This might guide your thinking.
AlvinSultana said:
Morally they have received 25% of their seasons cash in advance without the expenditure of supplying any product, they will have received funding for their business rates, their staff will be furloughed, and there are other schemes and loans available should they wish to apply. They may even
be insured They may not have supplied any product however they have at some point had to buy the product, they have to store it and pay rent, do they receive help on business rates as they will be occupying a warehouse I would need to check but I have a suspicion not, they may be paying 20% of their staff salaries, they will have to pay loans on vehicles etc and business interruption insurance may not cover a pandemic.
Insurance is a 2 way street, the OP could have taken out insurance to cover any cancellation/postponement of the event.
Is there a potential issue in that it might have been the OP who broke the contract first? The marquee company sent him a (presumably correct) request for payment which the OP refused to fulfil, hence potentially not performing his side of the contract? After that might the supplier be justified in not delivering the tent, ignoring the fact they couldn't do so due to the lockdown anyway.
If the OP had paid for the supply & the supplier not delivered then maybe the situation might be more clear cut. A simple credit card chargeback might have been the route to go.
If the OP had paid for the supply & the supplier not delivered then maybe the situation might be more clear cut. A simple credit card chargeback might have been the route to go.
Sideways Tim said:
We booked and paid a 25% deposit for a marquee for an event that should have happened this weekend. Obviously the situation as is means the event couldn't happen.
They eventually offered to waive their 10% postponement fee, but are demanding the same amount to be paid now, for a re-arranged date in September.
Now, my way of thinking is that if we're still unable to socially gather in September, then basically the event will be cancelled and we forfeit our current 25% deposit. I'm loathe the pay this extra 10% now as if they fold, or the event is cancelled, that will be lost too.
You still have a binding agreement do you not, regardless of a lack of a signed piece of paper. Not least given you paid 25% which stands as fairly real evidence of the intention to form and comply with a contract. Were you made clearly aware of any such postponement fee prior to or at the inception of the agreement? They eventually offered to waive their 10% postponement fee, but are demanding the same amount to be paid now, for a re-arranged date in September.
Now, my way of thinking is that if we're still unable to socially gather in September, then basically the event will be cancelled and we forfeit our current 25% deposit. I'm loathe the pay this extra 10% now as if they fold, or the event is cancelled, that will be lost too.
Now, are they saying the contract is frustrated? If not, why are they claiming another 25%? (to me they are not entitled to claim the contract is frustrated given it could still be performed in due course, albeit we do not have a date for the same) At this point to my mind they are bound by the same agreement as you are in the absence of their claiming frustration, which if they do means they owe you the 25% back in any event... If they are not claiming frustration then they are still not entitled to ask for a further 25% as the original agreement stands.
It sounds a bit to me like they have a cashflow issue and are hoping clients will plug those gaps..
Please note I am very, very tired so the above may be utter rot.....But I hope my 15 year old contract law is right enough....
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