Post lockdown : a what would you buy thread ft. man maths
Discussion
So the background:
I've wanted a 911 since my last trip to Le Mans in 98 with my late father, I missed the aircooled boat by dicking about with rally and drift cars and by the time I'd got sensible, a house and nipper had come along and that was that. But I'd kept a 'buy Richard a 911 for his 40th' savings account going, opened in 2003 and chucking a few quid into every month plus occasional bonuses and suchlike.
Fast forward to by 40th, kept an eye on the classifieds, trawled FB groups and the net but couldn't find the right car. An aero manual 3.4 car, decent provenance, black leather, hardbacks, yellow or red paint, M030 and LSD. A unicorn car that just never appeared.
So me being me got restless and ended up spending the Porsche fund on a gorgeous E46 M3 CS in Interlagos blue,great history, spec blue blah blah blah, and a Westfield SE which was purely bought on a whim from a mate and I actually am physically too big to fit in and drive (an early narrow bodied car)
And the Porsche itch just won't go away. So now 2 years later, with a job changed for one paying about £4K more on basic with potential for another £4K bonuses on top ( I don't like talking money but this bits important) I see myself drawn to cars higher than my initial budget.
So we then started looking at 996 C4S's, at say the £20-22k mark. This is covered by chopping in the CS and the Westfield either privately or px
But then the dreaded bore score and a potential £8k hartech bork fund comes into the equation.
So a c4s might then stand me in high 20's which I can't actually afford in physical cash monies.
HOWEVER!! This is the man maths bit: the mortgage I have is up for renewal in June, it's not huge about £36k on a £230k house with 13 years left to pay and I could top it up say £10k for about £100 a month more than I'm paying currently. Cancelling SKY tv which is rubbish saves me near enough that a month and this will also let me sell the westie separately and replenish the savings account.
So now the search has led me further up the Porsche food chain
High £20's is 997.2 Carreras S and 996 Turbo money and here lyeth the dilemma:
WOULD YOU BUY:
A) a 2009 997.2 Carrera S PDK 70k miles in nice spec and very good history
Or
B) a 2000 996 Turbo, 85k miles, manual again spec and provenance both good
Or
C) just put the M3 in against an early car in a straight swap (not found one yet)
Both first two cars actually exist and are cars from a respected Porsche specialist, and each has their own merits
does my man maths work? Am I being idiotic when the economy is going belly up? Or is life too short and losing both parents before I was 28 years old has given me a eff it attitude to life and just do it Richard?
What say the collective?
I've wanted a 911 since my last trip to Le Mans in 98 with my late father, I missed the aircooled boat by dicking about with rally and drift cars and by the time I'd got sensible, a house and nipper had come along and that was that. But I'd kept a 'buy Richard a 911 for his 40th' savings account going, opened in 2003 and chucking a few quid into every month plus occasional bonuses and suchlike.
Fast forward to by 40th, kept an eye on the classifieds, trawled FB groups and the net but couldn't find the right car. An aero manual 3.4 car, decent provenance, black leather, hardbacks, yellow or red paint, M030 and LSD. A unicorn car that just never appeared.
So me being me got restless and ended up spending the Porsche fund on a gorgeous E46 M3 CS in Interlagos blue,great history, spec blue blah blah blah, and a Westfield SE which was purely bought on a whim from a mate and I actually am physically too big to fit in and drive (an early narrow bodied car)
And the Porsche itch just won't go away. So now 2 years later, with a job changed for one paying about £4K more on basic with potential for another £4K bonuses on top ( I don't like talking money but this bits important) I see myself drawn to cars higher than my initial budget.
So we then started looking at 996 C4S's, at say the £20-22k mark. This is covered by chopping in the CS and the Westfield either privately or px
But then the dreaded bore score and a potential £8k hartech bork fund comes into the equation.
So a c4s might then stand me in high 20's which I can't actually afford in physical cash monies.
HOWEVER!! This is the man maths bit: the mortgage I have is up for renewal in June, it's not huge about £36k on a £230k house with 13 years left to pay and I could top it up say £10k for about £100 a month more than I'm paying currently. Cancelling SKY tv which is rubbish saves me near enough that a month and this will also let me sell the westie separately and replenish the savings account.
So now the search has led me further up the Porsche food chain
High £20's is 997.2 Carreras S and 996 Turbo money and here lyeth the dilemma:
WOULD YOU BUY:
A) a 2009 997.2 Carrera S PDK 70k miles in nice spec and very good history
Or
B) a 2000 996 Turbo, 85k miles, manual again spec and provenance both good
Or
C) just put the M3 in against an early car in a straight swap (not found one yet)
Both first two cars actually exist and are cars from a respected Porsche specialist, and each has their own merits
does my man maths work? Am I being idiotic when the economy is going belly up? Or is life too short and losing both parents before I was 28 years old has given me a eff it attitude to life and just do it Richard?
What say the collective?
Personally I'd revisit the 996 3.4 option, either wait it out for the right M030 one to come along, or just buy a standard 3.4 and maybe look at fititing some new suspension etc to it if required.
I had a 3.4 M030 car back in 98 and thought it was a brilliant drive, lighter than the GT3 version as well.
I had a 3.4 M030 car back in 98 and thought it was a brilliant drive, lighter than the GT3 version as well.
Surely ‘post lockdown’ will depend on where the market lands?
Ironically, under normal circumstances, we should now be seeing the market at its healthiest - political stability, economic confidence, low interest rates, lovely spring weather, the long Easter break, quiet roads ........
And, if you look in the classifieds, asking prices would seem to bear out this confidence.
But, I suspect this is just the calm before the storm, and there is a huge shadow looming that is bound to have far reaching implications on numerous aspects of normal life, both economic and social.
So, your buying options may look very different in the coming weeks and months - when cash could be king.
Ironically, under normal circumstances, we should now be seeing the market at its healthiest - political stability, economic confidence, low interest rates, lovely spring weather, the long Easter break, quiet roads ........
And, if you look in the classifieds, asking prices would seem to bear out this confidence.
But, I suspect this is just the calm before the storm, and there is a huge shadow looming that is bound to have far reaching implications on numerous aspects of normal life, both economic and social.
So, your buying options may look very different in the coming weeks and months - when cash could be king.
This looks great value and would tempt me:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2020...
however I am quite happy with my C2 996.2 and nothing owed! A lot to be said for financial security and not having an expensive asset to worry about. I still have plenty of things to worry about with a 3.6 but I could probably part it out if it lunches it's engine and not be too far out of pocket.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2020...
however I am quite happy with my C2 996.2 and nothing owed! A lot to be said for financial security and not having an expensive asset to worry about. I still have plenty of things to worry about with a 3.6 but I could probably part it out if it lunches it's engine and not be too far out of pocket.
If buying a 996 Turbo better have deep pockets as you will likely get hit with some big bills - Turbos, heat shields, corrosion on oil pipes and exhaust studs/bolts etc. Radiators. These cars are getting on and a lot of this stuff will be either due or heading for due. Been there and trust me None of this stuff is cheap!
I’ve had two, great cars at many levels but go in with your eyes open!
I’ve had two, great cars at many levels but go in with your eyes open!
Koln-RS said:
But, I suspect this is just the calm before the storm, and there is a huge shadow looming that is bound to have far reaching implications on numerous aspects of normal life, both economic and social.
So, your buying options may look very different in the coming weeks and months - when cash could be king.
The stock market is not the economy.So, your buying options may look very different in the coming weeks and months - when cash could be king.
It's not going to hold IMO...
Still a load of corporate debt to unravel. The level of defaults to come are going to be huge. Last time, it was mainly the banks that needed sorted. Also, the whole world actually wasn't affected last time...people living in slums in India didn't have mortgages in 2008 but they sure can catch Coronavirus in 2020..
It requires a coordinated worldwide plan to decide who is saved and who isn't...we have Trump at the helm so which ways it likely to go?
Reports of China factories getting back to 'normal' really need more detail. They are... sort of...but with such Draconian measures that we will never accept here...maybe communism has its advantages...
Gents, thank you for the input so far, agreed a crystal ball would be bloody hand right now that could foresee whether a 964 c2 will ever drop sub £20k again, or whether a C4S will behave And not bugger up it’s bites, or whether I’d ever get chance to be in a position to get my dream car ever again.
I’m aware of impending financial struggles for the world and It might not be such a good idea to be buying a new car, but this is gonna be a keeper and as long as I can keep a roof over our heads we’re good. And if the worst should ever happen then I’m in the fortunate position to sell the house and downsize somewhere without needing a mortgage. Man maths at play again
The next 2 or 3 months will be telling for P car prices I think
And I’m still none the wiser!!!
I’m aware of impending financial struggles for the world and It might not be such a good idea to be buying a new car, but this is gonna be a keeper and as long as I can keep a roof over our heads we’re good. And if the worst should ever happen then I’m in the fortunate position to sell the house and downsize somewhere without needing a mortgage. Man maths at play again
The next 2 or 3 months will be telling for P car prices I think
And I’m still none the wiser!!!
IMO buy a gen 1 996 C2 with no sunroof, factory aerokit for £10k to £15k if they maybe fall this low for a mint one. They are around and will come up now more often.
One thing I will say is that older Porsches really aren't worth stretching yourself for IMO as they can be v.expensive to fix unless you can do the work yourself. I remember my engine went on one at 59k miles and I basically had a worthless car as a new engine was £30k. Now £50k + for a new mezger engine maybe £35k on exchange basis.
Servicing at both indy and OPC expensive IMO unless you can get close to an indy.
One thing I will say is that older Porsches really aren't worth stretching yourself for IMO as they can be v.expensive to fix unless you can do the work yourself. I remember my engine went on one at 59k miles and I basically had a worthless car as a new engine was £30k. Now £50k + for a new mezger engine maybe £35k on exchange basis.
Servicing at both indy and OPC expensive IMO unless you can get close to an indy.
As ever, it's not so much about buying at the right time as about buying at the right price. That said, BCA have some great value Porsches on Buy it Now as they've quickly transitioned to a digital business. Currently they have a 997.2 Carrera with over 70k miles for low 20s. Although the cynic in my thinks it's probably best not to look online and have an honest chat about what you're after with a reputable independent. I'm sure many will be offered cars they'd happily flip for a sensible fee to keep the home fires burning this year. So pick up the phone and have some chats.
Unless you are particularly sold on a specific version (which you don't seem to be) I'd say open your options a little wider and also consider new.
I kept putting off a Porsche purchase, and was fairly sold on 996 C4S. But there was always a nagging doubt in the back of my mind about it being a relatively old car with an expensive taste for parts (ie: engine). Dabled with the idea of a 992s and enjoying the luxury of a new car warranty, but couldn't quite stretch to it, in terms of justifying the monthly outlay for what would be a 4th car (1x company BMW, some Ford RS's for fun etc).
Ended up trying 992s at PEC Silverstone in a bid to convince myself was totally impractical - too small, too lairy etc, but it wasn't. Absolutely amazing cars, so well planted and relatively comfortable. Even extremely flattering to a decidedly average driver like myself. Still couldn't transition from a justifiable outlay position though. Back to PEC Silverstone with my dad - he drove 992S, I took base Cayman out. Cayman blew me away, from a drivers perspective it was more engaging, better balanced, and just seemed the better package overall - plus it fitted financially.
My humble advice? - try out as many models as you can - will I end up with a 911? Hell yes, could I justify/sacrifice other aspects of life purely to have a new 911, hell no. I love the lines of the 996 widebody, I'd have one and not even worry about using it, they are simply so stunning to just look at.
My first Porsche? Much maligned 2019 718GTS 2.5. Full warranty, low miles, great MGFV, and totally calculable known costs to drive.
Also lastly, don't let anyone influence your own opinion, sure take on board experiences, and historical data, but don't wait forever or keep waiting - none of us know what's around the corner, and we're all a long time dead.
I kept putting off a Porsche purchase, and was fairly sold on 996 C4S. But there was always a nagging doubt in the back of my mind about it being a relatively old car with an expensive taste for parts (ie: engine). Dabled with the idea of a 992s and enjoying the luxury of a new car warranty, but couldn't quite stretch to it, in terms of justifying the monthly outlay for what would be a 4th car (1x company BMW, some Ford RS's for fun etc).
Ended up trying 992s at PEC Silverstone in a bid to convince myself was totally impractical - too small, too lairy etc, but it wasn't. Absolutely amazing cars, so well planted and relatively comfortable. Even extremely flattering to a decidedly average driver like myself. Still couldn't transition from a justifiable outlay position though. Back to PEC Silverstone with my dad - he drove 992S, I took base Cayman out. Cayman blew me away, from a drivers perspective it was more engaging, better balanced, and just seemed the better package overall - plus it fitted financially.
My humble advice? - try out as many models as you can - will I end up with a 911? Hell yes, could I justify/sacrifice other aspects of life purely to have a new 911, hell no. I love the lines of the 996 widebody, I'd have one and not even worry about using it, they are simply so stunning to just look at.
My first Porsche? Much maligned 2019 718GTS 2.5. Full warranty, low miles, great MGFV, and totally calculable known costs to drive.
Also lastly, don't let anyone influence your own opinion, sure take on board experiences, and historical data, but don't wait forever or keep waiting - none of us know what's around the corner, and we're all a long time dead.
Fnumber1user said:
My first Porsche? Much maligned 2019 718GTS 2.5. Full warranty, low miles, great MGFV, and totally calculable known costs to drive.
Also lastly, don't let anyone influence your own opinion
Great cars. So much utter nonsense and horse sAlso lastly, don't let anyone influence your own opinion
t written about that engine on here, as an ex F6 owner all I can say is what an improvement, enjoy!I would buy something that I fancied at a price I could afford but without tragic reliability issues ...
This would rule out anything water cooled other than GT engined (and only then with a great history) older than Gen2 ... 2009 onwards ?
The Gen2 engines are totally reliable and IMHO well worth the extra up-front cost. Known history still accepted for radiators / aircon condensers / suspension bushes / dampers / brake discs / ... all of which can be expensive if not maintained ...
Aircooled ... 3.2' are lovely if bodily sound and with good history ... 964's even more-so ... condition is everything and the more simple the better ... RS etc
This would rule out anything water cooled other than GT engined (and only then with a great history) older than Gen2 ... 2009 onwards ?
The Gen2 engines are totally reliable and IMHO well worth the extra up-front cost. Known history still accepted for radiators / aircon condensers / suspension bushes / dampers / brake discs / ... all of which can be expensive if not maintained ...
Aircooled ... 3.2' are lovely if bodily sound and with good history ... 964's even more-so ... condition is everything and the more simple the better ... RS etc
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I’d agree with that...the costs for maintaining these cars has to fall with prices though that will take time unless the market absolutely sts the bed. Which is possible. Lots of chat about cars being on SoR etc so they just come off the market rather than force the market down which with older cars/classics that may be right....It’s the modern stuff that will force the market...I think people under estimate the % of stock that an OPC owns outright. On average they have 50 AUC listed say plus I would guess 10 demonstrators, 10 service cars and 10 to 20 brand new cars in stock. So something like 80 cars on a conservative basis. If the market is off 10 or 20% we’re talking big numbers on a dealer by dealer basis...I don’t think the normal OPC business model of playing a waiting game will work...they will need to be proactive and shift stock.
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