Developing an app - where to start?
Discussion
Hello all, I literally have no idea where to start with this so please forgive naivety/stupidity/unintentional ambiguity.
Over the past 2 years I've been jotting down ideas for an app that I thought would be successful, something that after extensive research I cannot find competition for in the target industry. I know have some pretty thorough ideas on paper but have hit a wall.
My problem is I have no knowledge of app development or understanding of the funds/strategy involved behind developing or launching this type of business. Whether the idea is any good or not, I also have the concern that whoever I consult may take the idea and run with it themselves.
So I guess what I am asking is can anybody make any recommendations of how to pursue such an idea, what sort of funding is involved and potential ways of securing it and also how to protect an idea whilst in the development stages?
Thank you in advance PHers!
Over the past 2 years I've been jotting down ideas for an app that I thought would be successful, something that after extensive research I cannot find competition for in the target industry. I know have some pretty thorough ideas on paper but have hit a wall.
My problem is I have no knowledge of app development or understanding of the funds/strategy involved behind developing or launching this type of business. Whether the idea is any good or not, I also have the concern that whoever I consult may take the idea and run with it themselves.
So I guess what I am asking is can anybody make any recommendations of how to pursue such an idea, what sort of funding is involved and potential ways of securing it and also how to protect an idea whilst in the development stages?
Thank you in advance PHers!
I respond to these every few months.
So many things to consider that unless your a tech you wouldn’t even dream of. Most people end up not developing the apps
NDA and I’ll chat it through with you for 15 mins mate, generally speaking no dev I know has ever stolen the idea but NDA regardless
So many things to consider that unless your a tech you wouldn’t even dream of. Most people end up not developing the apps
NDA and I’ll chat it through with you for 15 mins mate, generally speaking no dev I know has ever stolen the idea but NDA regardless
I'm part of a small team that's well progressed on the same journey...
My OH - a marketer who had the idea originally and understands what it needs to achieve commercially - the business stuff basically.
Me - a designer who knows how to translate the concept into a user interface which is engaging, on-brand and encourages the user to act in the way we want them to - the touchy, feely, fluffy stuff basically.
Our partner - an app developer who we connected with on the Shapr networking app (check it out - it's basically Tinder for entrpreneurs) who's built an MVP which we're about to roll out to beta testers - the technical stuff basically.
My advice is to try to identify and join local networking groups. You'll likely be able to connect with others who are at different stages of a similar journey, entrepreneurs, business advisors, mentors, companies who run free events, angel investors, etc. We're near Leeds and there's loads here feeding off the whole "northern powerhouse" initiative - much of it free of charge.
Also, expect a long slog. We started a few years ago, initially partnering with a developer who was going to code the whole thing from scratch, but soon realised that it'd take a team of five a good six months. A few of his contacts came and went but we never really got a solidified team and ultimately his family commitments meant it was too much. Then we approached a few agencies and got quotes, but we had no money and no one in the UK wants to invest in an idea. Then we found our current partner who is using a "framework" to build the app, augmented with bespoke code where necessary. This means he can do it on his own relatively quickly, and indeed he has done.
As I said, we have no money so everything's done on the basis that whoever partners with us will get some equity. Those who are further down the road than us have said this is the best way to go as someone who has a vested interest in the business will be more committed. If you pay someone but they don't "own" any of it they'll have to balance you with other clients and might not always be there when you need them. If you pay an agency staff may come and go making continuity of service hard to maintain as the project is repeatedly passed on, plus, you'll represent a very small proportion of their overall business so you'll be bottom of the pile.
Finally, the book "How to Build a Billion Dollar App" by George Berkowski is well worth reading.
My OH - a marketer who had the idea originally and understands what it needs to achieve commercially - the business stuff basically.
Me - a designer who knows how to translate the concept into a user interface which is engaging, on-brand and encourages the user to act in the way we want them to - the touchy, feely, fluffy stuff basically.
Our partner - an app developer who we connected with on the Shapr networking app (check it out - it's basically Tinder for entrpreneurs) who's built an MVP which we're about to roll out to beta testers - the technical stuff basically.
My advice is to try to identify and join local networking groups. You'll likely be able to connect with others who are at different stages of a similar journey, entrepreneurs, business advisors, mentors, companies who run free events, angel investors, etc. We're near Leeds and there's loads here feeding off the whole "northern powerhouse" initiative - much of it free of charge.
Also, expect a long slog. We started a few years ago, initially partnering with a developer who was going to code the whole thing from scratch, but soon realised that it'd take a team of five a good six months. A few of his contacts came and went but we never really got a solidified team and ultimately his family commitments meant it was too much. Then we approached a few agencies and got quotes, but we had no money and no one in the UK wants to invest in an idea. Then we found our current partner who is using a "framework" to build the app, augmented with bespoke code where necessary. This means he can do it on his own relatively quickly, and indeed he has done.
As I said, we have no money so everything's done on the basis that whoever partners with us will get some equity. Those who are further down the road than us have said this is the best way to go as someone who has a vested interest in the business will be more committed. If you pay someone but they don't "own" any of it they'll have to balance you with other clients and might not always be there when you need them. If you pay an agency staff may come and go making continuity of service hard to maintain as the project is repeatedly passed on, plus, you'll represent a very small proportion of their overall business so you'll be bottom of the pile.
Finally, the book "How to Build a Billion Dollar App" by George Berkowski is well worth reading.
MitchT said:
I'm part of a small team that's well progressed on the same journey...
My OH - a marketer who had the idea originally and understands what it needs to achieve commercially - the business stuff basically.
Me - a designer who knows how to translate the concept into a user interface which is engaging, on-brand and encourages the user to act in the way we want them to - the touchy, feely, fluffy stuff basically.
Our partner - an app developer who we connected with on the Shapr networking app (check it out - it's basically Tinder for entrpreneurs) who's built an MVP which we're about to roll out to beta testers - the technical stuff basically.
My advice is to try to identify and join local networking groups. You'll likely be able to connect with others who are at different stages of a similar journey, entrepreneurs, business advisors, mentors, companies who run free events, angel investors, etc. We're near Leeds and there's loads here feeding off the whole "northern powerhouse" initiative - much of it free of charge.
Also, expect a long slog. We started a few years ago, initially partnering with a developer who was going to code the whole thing from scratch, but soon realised that it'd take a team of five a good six months. A few of his contacts came and went but we never really got a solidified team and ultimately his family commitments meant it was too much. Then we approached a few agencies and got quotes, but we had no money and no one in the UK wants to invest in an idea. Then we found our current partner who is using a "framework" to build the app, augmented with bespoke code where necessary. This means he can do it on his own relatively quickly, and indeed he has done.
As I said, we have no money so everything's done on the basis that whoever partners with us will get some equity. Those who are further down the road than us have said this is the best way to go as someone who has a vested interest in the business will be more committed. If you pay someone but they don't "own" any of it they'll have to balance you with other clients and might not always be there when you need them. If you pay an agency staff may come and go making continuity of service hard to maintain as the project is repeatedly passed on, plus, you'll represent a very small proportion of their overall business so you'll be bottom of the pile.
Finally, the book "How to Build a Billion Dollar App" by George Berkowski is well worth reading.
Hi MitchT - thanks for sharing your experience! Would you mind letting us know what “framework” your partner has used which he is able to tweak as required? My OH - a marketer who had the idea originally and understands what it needs to achieve commercially - the business stuff basically.
Me - a designer who knows how to translate the concept into a user interface which is engaging, on-brand and encourages the user to act in the way we want them to - the touchy, feely, fluffy stuff basically.
Our partner - an app developer who we connected with on the Shapr networking app (check it out - it's basically Tinder for entrpreneurs) who's built an MVP which we're about to roll out to beta testers - the technical stuff basically.
My advice is to try to identify and join local networking groups. You'll likely be able to connect with others who are at different stages of a similar journey, entrepreneurs, business advisors, mentors, companies who run free events, angel investors, etc. We're near Leeds and there's loads here feeding off the whole "northern powerhouse" initiative - much of it free of charge.
Also, expect a long slog. We started a few years ago, initially partnering with a developer who was going to code the whole thing from scratch, but soon realised that it'd take a team of five a good six months. A few of his contacts came and went but we never really got a solidified team and ultimately his family commitments meant it was too much. Then we approached a few agencies and got quotes, but we had no money and no one in the UK wants to invest in an idea. Then we found our current partner who is using a "framework" to build the app, augmented with bespoke code where necessary. This means he can do it on his own relatively quickly, and indeed he has done.
As I said, we have no money so everything's done on the basis that whoever partners with us will get some equity. Those who are further down the road than us have said this is the best way to go as someone who has a vested interest in the business will be more committed. If you pay someone but they don't "own" any of it they'll have to balance you with other clients and might not always be there when you need them. If you pay an agency staff may come and go making continuity of service hard to maintain as the project is repeatedly passed on, plus, you'll represent a very small proportion of their overall business so you'll be bottom of the pile.
Finally, the book "How to Build a Billion Dollar App" by George Berkowski is well worth reading.
I’m not an app developer by any means but have dabbled in some coding as a hobby many years ago. It would be good to see what other tools/platforms others are using to quickly build apps on. The one I have come across before was “Unity”, but it is really game focused and maybe not much use for OP. I’ve always wondered if there were credible alternatives like you mention.
jonamv8 said:
I respond to these every few months.
So many things to consider that unless your a tech you wouldn’t even dream of. Most people end up not developing the apps
NDA and I’ll chat it through with you for 15 mins mate, generally speaking no dev I know has ever stolen the idea but NDA regardless
Thanks a lot for the insight and the offer to discuss Jon, I'll send you a message today. So many things to consider that unless your a tech you wouldn’t even dream of. Most people end up not developing the apps
NDA and I’ll chat it through with you for 15 mins mate, generally speaking no dev I know has ever stolen the idea but NDA regardless
MitchT said:
I'm part of a small team that's well progressed on the same journey...
My OH - a marketer who had the idea originally and understands what it needs to achieve commercially - the business stuff basically.
Me - a designer who knows how to translate the concept into a user interface which is engaging, on-brand and encourages the user to act in the way we want them to - the touchy, feely, fluffy stuff basically.
Our partner - an app developer who we connected with on the Shapr networking app (check it out - it's basically Tinder for entrpreneurs) who's built an MVP which we're about to roll out to beta testers - the technical stuff basically.
My advice is to try to identify and join local networking groups. You'll likely be able to connect with others who are at different stages of a similar journey, entrepreneurs, business advisors, mentors, companies who run free events, angel investors, etc. We're near Leeds and there's loads here feeding off the whole "northern powerhouse" initiative - much of it free of charge.
Also, expect a long slog. We started a few years ago, initially partnering with a developer who was going to code the whole thing from scratch, but soon realised that it'd take a team of five a good six months. A few of his contacts came and went but we never really got a solidified team and ultimately his family commitments meant it was too much. Then we approached a few agencies and got quotes, but we had no money and no one in the UK wants to invest in an idea. Then we found our current partner who is using a "framework" to build the app, augmented with bespoke code where necessary. This means he can do it on his own relatively quickly, and indeed he has done.
As I said, we have no money so everything's done on the basis that whoever partners with us will get some equity. Those who are further down the road than us have said this is the best way to go as someone who has a vested interest in the business will be more committed. If you pay someone but they don't "own" any of it they'll have to balance you with other clients and might not always be there when you need them. If you pay an agency staff may come and go making continuity of service hard to maintain as the project is repeatedly passed on, plus, you'll represent a very small proportion of their overall business so you'll be bottom of the pile.
Finally, the book "How to Build a Billion Dollar App" by George Berkowski is well worth reading.
Thanks Mitch, great to hear an insight from somebody who is currently on the journey and I wish you all the best with your venture. I am currently alone in pursuing this, and although I have done a similar project on a significantly smaller scale with previous business partners, this is in an altogether different sector with a much broader target audience. My OH - a marketer who had the idea originally and understands what it needs to achieve commercially - the business stuff basically.
Me - a designer who knows how to translate the concept into a user interface which is engaging, on-brand and encourages the user to act in the way we want them to - the touchy, feely, fluffy stuff basically.
Our partner - an app developer who we connected with on the Shapr networking app (check it out - it's basically Tinder for entrpreneurs) who's built an MVP which we're about to roll out to beta testers - the technical stuff basically.
My advice is to try to identify and join local networking groups. You'll likely be able to connect with others who are at different stages of a similar journey, entrepreneurs, business advisors, mentors, companies who run free events, angel investors, etc. We're near Leeds and there's loads here feeding off the whole "northern powerhouse" initiative - much of it free of charge.
Also, expect a long slog. We started a few years ago, initially partnering with a developer who was going to code the whole thing from scratch, but soon realised that it'd take a team of five a good six months. A few of his contacts came and went but we never really got a solidified team and ultimately his family commitments meant it was too much. Then we approached a few agencies and got quotes, but we had no money and no one in the UK wants to invest in an idea. Then we found our current partner who is using a "framework" to build the app, augmented with bespoke code where necessary. This means he can do it on his own relatively quickly, and indeed he has done.
As I said, we have no money so everything's done on the basis that whoever partners with us will get some equity. Those who are further down the road than us have said this is the best way to go as someone who has a vested interest in the business will be more committed. If you pay someone but they don't "own" any of it they'll have to balance you with other clients and might not always be there when you need them. If you pay an agency staff may come and go making continuity of service hard to maintain as the project is repeatedly passed on, plus, you'll represent a very small proportion of their overall business so you'll be bottom of the pile.
Finally, the book "How to Build a Billion Dollar App" by George Berkowski is well worth reading.
I will certainly check out Shapr later on today, sounds interesting. I like the idea of the networking etc. (which I would be keen to explore once we are allowed out!) however I am unsure whether I need to enter into something like this with something more solid - how did you approach this? Did you have an 'elevator pitch' so to speak, did you freely discuss the idea while in it's infancy or by that point was there a fairly rigorous plan behind the development of the app?
Equity partners sounds like a path I would explore given I am in a similar position to you by all accounts. That book will be on the Kindle by tonight - thanks!
CrouchingWayne said:
Hi MitchT - thanks for sharing your experience! Would you mind letting us know what “framework” your partner has used which he is able to tweak as required?
I’m not an app developer by any means but have dabbled in some coding as a hobby many years ago. It would be good to see what other tools/platforms others are using to quickly build apps on. The one I have come across before was “Unity”, but it is really game focused and maybe not much use for OP. I’ve always wondered if there were credible alternatives like you mention.
Take a look at www.b4x.com. Cross platform and easy to get into because it uses Basic as it's language. Far faster development time than using Android Studio or Xcode (I have done both). It's all free apart from the IOS platform which is around £100 and you do not require a Mac to develop an IOS app. I’m not an app developer by any means but have dabbled in some coding as a hobby many years ago. It would be good to see what other tools/platforms others are using to quickly build apps on. The one I have come across before was “Unity”, but it is really game focused and maybe not much use for OP. I’ve always wondered if there were credible alternatives like you mention.
Another vote for B4X. I've developed a few Apps and a game using their software. It's quite cheap but works really, really well 
Myself and a couple of friends had an idea for an App - which we would find useful and that's how it started out. We gained a few hundred thousand Users and did okay (beer money and paid for the licences). Off the back of that I developed a couple of other Apps but to be honest Covid-19 has put paid to most of my Apps right now.
OP give it a try - or happy to discuss - with NDA etc.. There are a lot of hoops and steps to go through in order to get your App onto the various markets. Personally I would try and write down what the absolute minimum is that you can have in place for the App to be functional and go to market with. If you keep on adding bells and whistles (aka feature creep) you might never get something to market. Be brutal. Get it out there and people interested and engaged, they may well suggest ideas that you already have in place or suggest other ideas you hadn't even considered. Software used to be seen as getting it right first time, but App software seems to lend itself better to being updated frequently. Of course, as always, these things are a balance between minimum and enough.
Maybe even get a few interested Users to beta-test the software before general release. They may well find bugs, etc.. Android is way cheaper and easier to get into, but there are so many different devices and versions of the OS out there that it can complicate things - but mostly target 80%+ of the market in terms of the Android OS version. iOS is a better market, but the entry point costs more. Fewer different devices to handle.
Make a plan, version 0.1 or similar - what does it need to contain in order to function. Absolute bare minimum. Then lay out the rest of the updates, what is coming in 0.2, 0.3, all the way to a 1.0 version or similar.
As always - ask yourself, would I use that App? If the answer is no, why would other people use it?
Myself and a couple of friends had an idea for an App - which we would find useful and that's how it started out. We gained a few hundred thousand Users and did okay (beer money and paid for the licences). Off the back of that I developed a couple of other Apps but to be honest Covid-19 has put paid to most of my Apps right now.
OP give it a try - or happy to discuss - with NDA etc.. There are a lot of hoops and steps to go through in order to get your App onto the various markets. Personally I would try and write down what the absolute minimum is that you can have in place for the App to be functional and go to market with. If you keep on adding bells and whistles (aka feature creep) you might never get something to market. Be brutal. Get it out there and people interested and engaged, they may well suggest ideas that you already have in place or suggest other ideas you hadn't even considered. Software used to be seen as getting it right first time, but App software seems to lend itself better to being updated frequently. Of course, as always, these things are a balance between minimum and enough.
Maybe even get a few interested Users to beta-test the software before general release. They may well find bugs, etc.. Android is way cheaper and easier to get into, but there are so many different devices and versions of the OS out there that it can complicate things - but mostly target 80%+ of the market in terms of the Android OS version. iOS is a better market, but the entry point costs more. Fewer different devices to handle.
Make a plan, version 0.1 or similar - what does it need to contain in order to function. Absolute bare minimum. Then lay out the rest of the updates, what is coming in 0.2, 0.3, all the way to a 1.0 version or similar.
As always - ask yourself, would I use that App? If the answer is no, why would other people use it?
My usual advice for similar ideas is "Does it need to be an app"?
Would it be quicker / easier and cheaper to launch it as a responsive website first to test the idea?
This would enable it to be used on most devices and allow easier updating and doesn't require users to download the app first (You can still save it as an app on your home screen though as a "Progressive Web App").
Many apps need to use functionality that they could only access through an app - but if not this could be a easier route to market.
Would it be quicker / easier and cheaper to launch it as a responsive website first to test the idea?
This would enable it to be used on most devices and allow easier updating and doesn't require users to download the app first (You can still save it as an app on your home screen though as a "Progressive Web App").
Many apps need to use functionality that they could only access through an app - but if not this could be a easier route to market.
From someone who spent £xx,xxx building a web app with currently 0 users here’s how to start.
1) create a brand name
2) build a landing sales page with mock up screen shots , info about how it solves problem etc
3) get people to sign up to mailing list if interested in the app
4) market app to target audience.
Then and only if you have sufficient interest proceed with building the app.
It’ll save you loads of money either in realising it’s not what the user base wants or in market feedback on what the user base really wants.
If I had done this I probably wouldn’t have proceeded with the app as I didn’t have enough funding to make what people actually want.
P.s anyone want to buy a 70% finished web app
1) create a brand name
2) build a landing sales page with mock up screen shots , info about how it solves problem etc
3) get people to sign up to mailing list if interested in the app
4) market app to target audience.
Then and only if you have sufficient interest proceed with building the app.
It’ll save you loads of money either in realising it’s not what the user base wants or in market feedback on what the user base really wants.
If I had done this I probably wouldn’t have proceeded with the app as I didn’t have enough funding to make what people actually want.
P.s anyone want to buy a 70% finished web app
MrSparks said:
From someone who spent £xx,xxx building a web app with currently 0 users here’s how to start.
1) create a brand name
2) build a landing sales page with mock up screen shots , info about how it solves problem etc
3) get people to sign up to mailing list if interested in the app
4) market app to target audience.
Then and only if you have sufficient interest proceed with building the app.
It’ll save you loads of money either in realising it’s not what the user base wants or in market feedback on what the user base really wants.
If I had done this I probably wouldn’t have proceeded with the app as I didn’t have enough funding to make what people actually want.
P.s anyone want to buy a 70% finished web app
Thank god someone finally said this. 1) create a brand name
2) build a landing sales page with mock up screen shots , info about how it solves problem etc
3) get people to sign up to mailing list if interested in the app
4) market app to target audience.
Then and only if you have sufficient interest proceed with building the app.
It’ll save you loads of money either in realising it’s not what the user base wants or in market feedback on what the user base really wants.
If I had done this I probably wouldn’t have proceeded with the app as I didn’t have enough funding to make what people actually want.
P.s anyone want to buy a 70% finished web app
This is 100 million percent the way to go.
1 - As above, set up a website (probably using Squarespace) that you can send traffic too. Use cheap Facebook Ads to drive traffic.
2 - Get the phone number number of everyone who signs up.
3 - Call them and get their feedback. Work out the themes / big problems they have - adjust what your service will look like accordingly.
4 - Once you are confident you have a large potential market with a real problem you can solve, work out how to deliver your soluton. Don't be wedded to the idea of an app as that's a really quick way to burn £££.
I've done this before. Send me a PM if you want more details.
CrouchingWayne said:
Would you mind letting us know what “framework” your partner has used which he is able to tweak as required?
Framework is Microsoft Xamarin, part of their .net ecosystem. He uses C# for bespoke code. EdwardC1989 said:
I like the idea of the networking etc. (which I would be keen to explore once we are allowed out!) however I am unsure whether I need to enter into something like this with something more solid - how did you approach this? Did you have an 'elevator pitch' so to speak, did you freely discuss the idea while in it's infancy or by that point was there a fairly rigorous plan behind the development of the app?
We just agreed on a high level description which didn't give anything away. In terms of building networks - we're fortunate in that Leeds, which is a 20 minute train journey from where we live, has a large tech scene, loads of events - most of which are free, and various groups which operate online but also have meet ups. Look up "Leeds Digital Drinks" and "Leeds Digital Festival" to get an idea, then have a good hunt around and see if there's anything like it near you.22s said:
MrSparks said:
From someone who spent £xx,xxx building a web app with currently 0 users here’s how to start.
1) create a brand name
2) build a landing sales page with mock up screen shots , info about how it solves problem etc
3) get people to sign up to mailing list if interested in the app
4) market app to target audience.
Then and only if you have sufficient interest proceed with building the app.
It’ll save you loads of money either in realising it’s not what the user base wants or in market feedback on what the user base really wants.
If I had done this I probably wouldn’t have proceeded with the app as I didn’t have enough funding to make what people actually want.
P.s anyone want to buy a 70% finished web app
Thank god someone finally said this. 1) create a brand name
2) build a landing sales page with mock up screen shots , info about how it solves problem etc
3) get people to sign up to mailing list if interested in the app
4) market app to target audience.
Then and only if you have sufficient interest proceed with building the app.
It’ll save you loads of money either in realising it’s not what the user base wants or in market feedback on what the user base really wants.
If I had done this I probably wouldn’t have proceeded with the app as I didn’t have enough funding to make what people actually want.
P.s anyone want to buy a 70% finished web app
This is 100 million percent the way to go.
1 - As above, set up a website (probably using Squarespace) that you can send traffic too. Use cheap Facebook Ads to drive traffic.
2 - Get the phone number number of everyone who signs up.
3 - Call them and get their feedback. Work out the themes / big problems they have - adjust what your service will look like accordingly.
4 - Once you are confident you have a large potential market with a real problem you can solve, work out how to deliver your soluton. Don't be wedded to the idea of an app as that's a really quick way to burn £££.
I've done this before. Send me a PM if you want more details.
You don't need to spend money on anything or rather very little. I think I spent maybe £100 on developing an App and even that might be an exagerration. I've made more than that on the Apps, but not a massive amount.
But let's be clear - if you and a few close friends think they would use the App - even an initial cut-down version then proceed. If someone shrugs their shoulders or says 'yes' all the time, but when push comes to shove either don't bother installing it or using it, then you know that it's not going to be a winner. But also, if you are going to use it, develop it and put it out there for your use. I've got an App which I use on a daily basis which I developed, so it's a 'winner' in that sense, in that it solves a problem that I wanted it to and I learnt a whole host of things along the way. Of course personally I used it primarily as a learning exercise and my background is software development.
Make the App, then the brand can follow. If you spend a whole load of time dreaming up a brand your moment may well be gone. Most of the successful Apps / App Companies out there had 40 or 50 failures before they hit 'that' App... and they are constantly evolving and planning their App and the next features or offer to bring people back to it. Some of them are almost unrecognisable from where they started.
Actually I just noticed that B4A (mentioned above by me and someone else, B4A is the Android part of B4x) is now free to use (as of March this year). It was something like 100 dollars for 3 years of updates, but now there's no excuse not to develop for Android devices. I can confirm that this is an amazing platform and is relatively easy to develop Apps which are really powerful and professional looking (take a look at the Gallery on their website). Don't go looking elsewhere, for Android development platforms.
eps said:
I disagree. You don't need a brand. You need a concept and a clear idea of what it needs to do in order to have the minimum amount of functionality to interest people.
You don't need to spend money on anything or rather very little. I think I spent maybe £100 on developing an App and even that might be an exagerration. I've made more than that on the Apps, but not a massive amount.
But let's be clear - if you and a few close friends think they would use the App - even an initial cut-down version then proceed. If someone shrugs their shoulders or says 'yes' all the time, but when push comes to shove either don't bother installing it or using it, then you know that it's not going to be a winner. But also, if you are going to use it, develop it and put it out there for your use. I've got an App which I use on a daily basis which I developed, so it's a 'winner' in that sense, in that it solves a problem that I wanted it to and I learnt a whole host of things along the way. Of course personally I used it primarily as a learning exercise and my background is software development.
Make the App, then the brand can follow. If you spend a whole load of time dreaming up a brand your moment may well be gone. Most of the successful Apps / App Companies out there had 40 or 50 failures before they hit 'that' App... and they are constantly evolving and planning their App and the next features or offer to bring people back to it. Some of them are almost unrecognisable from where they started.
Actually I just noticed that B4A (mentioned above by me and someone else, B4A is the Android part of B4x) is now free to use (as of March this year). It was something like 100 dollars for 3 years of updates, but now there's no excuse not to develop for Android devices. I can confirm that this is an amazing platform and is relatively easy to develop Apps which are really powerful and professional looking (take a look at the Gallery on their website). Don't go looking elsewhere, for Android development platforms.
Hmmm...You don't need to spend money on anything or rather very little. I think I spent maybe £100 on developing an App and even that might be an exagerration. I've made more than that on the Apps, but not a massive amount.
But let's be clear - if you and a few close friends think they would use the App - even an initial cut-down version then proceed. If someone shrugs their shoulders or says 'yes' all the time, but when push comes to shove either don't bother installing it or using it, then you know that it's not going to be a winner. But also, if you are going to use it, develop it and put it out there for your use. I've got an App which I use on a daily basis which I developed, so it's a 'winner' in that sense, in that it solves a problem that I wanted it to and I learnt a whole host of things along the way. Of course personally I used it primarily as a learning exercise and my background is software development.
Make the App, then the brand can follow. If you spend a whole load of time dreaming up a brand your moment may well be gone. Most of the successful Apps / App Companies out there had 40 or 50 failures before they hit 'that' App... and they are constantly evolving and planning their App and the next features or offer to bring people back to it. Some of them are almost unrecognisable from where they started.
Actually I just noticed that B4A (mentioned above by me and someone else, B4A is the Android part of B4x) is now free to use (as of March this year). It was something like 100 dollars for 3 years of updates, but now there's no excuse not to develop for Android devices. I can confirm that this is an amazing platform and is relatively easy to develop Apps which are really powerful and professional looking (take a look at the Gallery on their website). Don't go looking elsewhere, for Android development platforms.
I've seen numerous small groups of friends or colleagues who would all "use the app" they've thought of.
That's not good enough - and why the brand/web sign up stuff is valid.
You need people who will actively pay to use an app, or a clear direct revenue stream from them using it. Ads in app make absolutely nothing these days (yes, there are exceptions, but in general). So you need to have a confirmed audience of people willing to pay.
In practise your friends who "would all use it" - half will never even download, a quarter will download but not see the point/get confused by it/break it, and a quarter will say something positive like "yeah, that's really great, I'd definitely use it". Pretty much none will put their money where their mouths are.
You can easily spend a fortune developing an app, and only then discover you need another fortune to actually find the audience (advertising, search, promotions etc. etc.), and only then find out that the audience doesn't generate a meaningful income. At which point you've spent two fortunes, wasted months (even years) of your life and got nothing for it.
Test the value/money making part first. Then build an app.
eps said:
I disagree. You don't need a brand. You need a concept and a clear idea of what it needs to do in order to have the minimum amount of functionality to interest people.
You don't need to spend money on anything or rather very little. I think I spent maybe £100 on developing an App and even that might be an exagerration. I've made more than that on the Apps, but not a massive amount.
But let's be clear - if you and a few close friends think they would use the App - even an initial cut-down version then proceed. If someone shrugs their shoulders or says 'yes' all the time, but when push comes to shove either don't bother installing it or using it, then you know that it's not going to be a winner. But also, if you are going to use it, develop it and put it out there for your use. I've got an App which I use on a daily basis which I developed, so it's a 'winner' in that sense, in that it solves a problem that I wanted it to and I learnt a whole host of things along the way. Of course personally I used it primarily as a learning exercise and my background is software development.
Make the App, then the brand can follow. If you spend a whole load of time dreaming up a brand your moment may well be gone. Most of the successful Apps / App Companies out there had 40 or 50 failures before they hit 'that' App... and they are constantly evolving and planning their App and the next features or offer to bring people back to it. Some of them are almost unrecognisable from where they started.
Actually I just noticed that B4A (mentioned above by me and someone else, B4A is the Android part of B4x) is now free to use (as of March this year). It was something like 100 dollars for 3 years of updates, but now there's no excuse not to develop for Android devices. I can confirm that this is an amazing platform and is relatively easy to develop Apps which are really powerful and professional looking (take a look at the Gallery on their website). Don't go looking elsewhere, for Android development platforms.
Yeah to clarify I mean just create a name and website not pay for full branding. Just get something up so you can start talking to potential customers. You don't need to spend money on anything or rather very little. I think I spent maybe £100 on developing an App and even that might be an exagerration. I've made more than that on the Apps, but not a massive amount.
But let's be clear - if you and a few close friends think they would use the App - even an initial cut-down version then proceed. If someone shrugs their shoulders or says 'yes' all the time, but when push comes to shove either don't bother installing it or using it, then you know that it's not going to be a winner. But also, if you are going to use it, develop it and put it out there for your use. I've got an App which I use on a daily basis which I developed, so it's a 'winner' in that sense, in that it solves a problem that I wanted it to and I learnt a whole host of things along the way. Of course personally I used it primarily as a learning exercise and my background is software development.
Make the App, then the brand can follow. If you spend a whole load of time dreaming up a brand your moment may well be gone. Most of the successful Apps / App Companies out there had 40 or 50 failures before they hit 'that' App... and they are constantly evolving and planning their App and the next features or offer to bring people back to it. Some of them are almost unrecognisable from where they started.
Actually I just noticed that B4A (mentioned above by me and someone else, B4A is the Android part of B4x) is now free to use (as of March this year). It was something like 100 dollars for 3 years of updates, but now there's no excuse not to develop for Android devices. I can confirm that this is an amazing platform and is relatively easy to develop Apps which are really powerful and professional looking (take a look at the Gallery on their website). Don't go looking elsewhere, for Android development platforms.
You can buy a domain, hosting and web template for less than £70 and be up and running in days.
And I had numerous friends say the software was great and they’d use it.
Number of friends who actually signed up: 0
None of them even tested the software.
Don’t ask friends, ask potential customers.
Ironically our software works great. It’s just only one part of a multi part solution customers actually want. If I’d have asked people I’d have priced the project properly and either not proceeded or funded accordingly.
Thank you all very much for putting forward very useful suggestions on how best to proceed.
The idea of starting with a website could work, however I’d require the capability for people to post directly to the site in order for this to work, so I think using a web developer would work best over something such as squarespace.
Similarly, using a more basic website to drive traffic to would potentially roadblock the project unless I had a product to offer within a short space of time, although the gap of complexity between the two (which I am sure I’ll learn) might mean this is a necessary stepping stone.
Like any enthusiastic budding entrepreneur, I am almost certain that there is a large market for the product, but as many of you have mentioned I will need to try that with a group of trusted individuals (trusted in the way that they’ll tell me whether it’s rubbish or not)! The viability of the product and the development path for the app/website are likely the most pressing points at the moment, so I will contact those who have kindly offered up their time to discuss, while rolling out the idea on paper to friends and family.
On another note, if said app/website was the astounding success that I dream it to be, it would require capacity for profile creation for all users, as well as storage for multiple media files per user. As a complete novice, is this something that becomes more difficult, or does is simply boil down to how much data storage you pay for (if that is even a thing!)
Again forgive the naivety, my line of work is strictly commercial and so although I’m fairly technically able, coding etc. is far far beyond me!
Thanks everyone for your messages, even if not directly replied to all have been gratefully received and taken on board.
Cheers
The idea of starting with a website could work, however I’d require the capability for people to post directly to the site in order for this to work, so I think using a web developer would work best over something such as squarespace.
Similarly, using a more basic website to drive traffic to would potentially roadblock the project unless I had a product to offer within a short space of time, although the gap of complexity between the two (which I am sure I’ll learn) might mean this is a necessary stepping stone.
Like any enthusiastic budding entrepreneur, I am almost certain that there is a large market for the product, but as many of you have mentioned I will need to try that with a group of trusted individuals (trusted in the way that they’ll tell me whether it’s rubbish or not)! The viability of the product and the development path for the app/website are likely the most pressing points at the moment, so I will contact those who have kindly offered up their time to discuss, while rolling out the idea on paper to friends and family.
On another note, if said app/website was the astounding success that I dream it to be, it would require capacity for profile creation for all users, as well as storage for multiple media files per user. As a complete novice, is this something that becomes more difficult, or does is simply boil down to how much data storage you pay for (if that is even a thing!)
Again forgive the naivety, my line of work is strictly commercial and so although I’m fairly technically able, coding etc. is far far beyond me!
Thanks everyone for your messages, even if not directly replied to all have been gratefully received and taken on board.
Cheers
It's worth reading up on the concept of "Minumum viable product", and also the difference between testing on trusted individuals vs the general public. This is really important, because you don't actually benefit from opinions as much as metrics. You get opinions from friends, metrics from strangers.
Also, books like the Seven Day Startup are worth reading (or longer books like the Lean Startup - the bible on the subject). I find these things in audio book format are easy to digest whilst you're walking the dog or whatever, and they give some good context from people who've "been there, done that".
Remember also that what you should be focusing on is what the core value is that you're offering - what are people actually going to pay for? The issue of implementation (should it be a website, an app, prepacked software, bespoke, hosted on AWS or somewhere else) should be answered by someone who really understands what you're trying to achieve. The worst thing you can do (as someone who has no experience of technical stuff), is try to make decisions upfront and tell someone what to write.
I can recount many horror stories of startups that hired technical staff, gave them a list of jobs to do and then were surprised when the result was not functional, or to the standard they needed. It's like hiring a builder to build you a house and then telling them which nails to use. Start with your high level goals ("I want a house that will be comfortable for a family of four, that's good for entertaining and has a big garden") rather than the details ("I want the kitchen to have granite worktops").
If this is going to be successful, assume you're in for the long haul. That means whoever does the technical stuff is going to have to be around for a couple of years, and is going to have to move mountains to get you through the difficult bits. Don't imagine you can pay someone for (say) three months worth of work, end up with a 'finished' product and then just turn on the money machine. It never works like that.
Also, books like the Seven Day Startup are worth reading (or longer books like the Lean Startup - the bible on the subject). I find these things in audio book format are easy to digest whilst you're walking the dog or whatever, and they give some good context from people who've "been there, done that".
Remember also that what you should be focusing on is what the core value is that you're offering - what are people actually going to pay for? The issue of implementation (should it be a website, an app, prepacked software, bespoke, hosted on AWS or somewhere else) should be answered by someone who really understands what you're trying to achieve. The worst thing you can do (as someone who has no experience of technical stuff), is try to make decisions upfront and tell someone what to write.
I can recount many horror stories of startups that hired technical staff, gave them a list of jobs to do and then were surprised when the result was not functional, or to the standard they needed. It's like hiring a builder to build you a house and then telling them which nails to use. Start with your high level goals ("I want a house that will be comfortable for a family of four, that's good for entertaining and has a big garden") rather than the details ("I want the kitchen to have granite worktops").
If this is going to be successful, assume you're in for the long haul. That means whoever does the technical stuff is going to have to be around for a couple of years, and is going to have to move mountains to get you through the difficult bits. Don't imagine you can pay someone for (say) three months worth of work, end up with a 'finished' product and then just turn on the money machine. It never works like that.
Akiraprise said:
My usual advice for similar ideas is "Does it need to be an app"?
Would it be quicker / easier and cheaper to launch it as a responsive website first to test the idea?
This would enable it to be used on most devices and allow easier updating and doesn't require users to download the app first (You can still save it as an app on your home screen though as a "Progressive Web App").
Many apps need to use functionality that they could only access through an app - but if not this could be a easier route to market.
This sounds sensible. Would it be quicker / easier and cheaper to launch it as a responsive website first to test the idea?
This would enable it to be used on most devices and allow easier updating and doesn't require users to download the app first (You can still save it as an app on your home screen though as a "Progressive Web App").
Many apps need to use functionality that they could only access through an app - but if not this could be a easier route to market.
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