can you be sued if?
Discussion
Just wondering if you can be sued for using another companies name on your website and listing your company name as trademarked when you haven't trademarked it?
Also can I be reported for making money selling things on a website in conjunction with my current job? Current Job puts me in 20% tax band so should i be declaring profits on things i sell on website and FB? Prob in the region of a few thousand pounds
Also can I be reported for making money selling things on a website in conjunction with my current job? Current Job puts me in 20% tax band so should i be declaring profits on things i sell on website and FB? Prob in the region of a few thousand pounds
NuckyThompson said:
Just wondering if you can be sued for using another companies name on your website and listing your company name as trademarked when you haven't trademarked it?
Also can I be reported for making money selling things on a website in conjunction with my current job? Current Job puts me in 20% tax band so should i be declaring profits on things i sell on website and FB? Prob in the region of a few thousand pounds
1. Yes, you can be sued for using another company's name on your website without its permission. Doing that may constitute the tort of passing off, if the use of the name expresses or implies an association with the other company and/or could cause confusion between your business and the other business. If you use the other company's name as knocking copy that might, depending on the context, be defamatory.Also can I be reported for making money selling things on a website in conjunction with my current job? Current Job puts me in 20% tax band so should i be declaring profits on things i sell on website and FB? Prob in the region of a few thousand pounds
2. Claiming to have a trademark that you do not have may be a misleading advertisement. You could get sued for this, or be subject to regulatory action.
3. Reported by whom and to whom? Do you mean dobbed in for tax cheating? Maybe. It depends if someone notices.
4. You should declare trading profits in your tax return.
5. Don't be a cheaty cheaty cheat cheat. In business, honesty is best.
IAAL.
IANYL (I am rather glad to say).
I add, OP, that there is a thing called Intellectual Property (IP for short), and the name, mark, logo, and get up used by a business form part of its intellectual property (IP also includes patents, copyrights, design rights, and database rights). The thing about IP is that it is treated by the law as property, and the law tends to be big on the protection of property rights. As the saying goes: you wouldn't steal a car ... .
NuckyThompson said:
Just wondering if you can be sued for using another companies name on your website and listing your company name as trademarked when you haven't trademarked it?
As BV stated.
Also can I be reported for making money selling things on a website in conjunction with my current job? Current Job puts me in 20% tax band so should i be declaring profits on things i sell on website and FB? Prob in the region of a few thousand pounds
Yes but it’s unlikely to be noticed. I did read somewhere that HMRC at one point were investigating regular eBay traders. But will that be a priority nowadays?As BV stated.
Also can I be reported for making money selling things on a website in conjunction with my current job? Current Job puts me in 20% tax band so should i be declaring profits on things i sell on website and FB? Prob in the region of a few thousand pounds
However if I were you I’d register. If you keep records it’s only an hour or two to fill in a tax form and if you are trading from home most of your profits (on your few thousand) can be offset anyway.
We had some cases of this when I used to own a telecoms company twenty years ago. Mine wasn't a huge firm, but for whatever reason others were drawn to pass off their companies as mine.
In the most bizarre instance, a firm in Liverpool actually put OUR web address and email@ourfirm.co.uk on THEIR business cards. The result of which was that their sales prospects used to email our office. We did very well from it!
We never sued anyone, because generally the damage was negligible and a solicitor's "f
k off and desist" letter usually refocused their marketing.
In the most bizarre instance, a firm in Liverpool actually put OUR web address and email@ourfirm.co.uk on THEIR business cards. The result of which was that their sales prospects used to email our office. We did very well from it!
We never sued anyone, because generally the damage was negligible and a solicitor's "f
k off and desist" letter usually refocused their marketing.The best passing off case that I ever did involved an enterprising chap who was offering toilet cleaning services to London theatres under the banner "Andrew Lloyd Webber Cleaning Services". A "jack it in" letter from ALW's solicitors did not produce the desired effect, and so I was instructed to go to see the Chancery Judge and obtain an injunction. The likely lad thought that he had come up with a masterstroke when he changed his name by deed poll to Andrew Lloyd Webber the day before the hearing, and he was rather miffed when this did not avail him. I quite liked the guy - he was a cheeky chappie.
It is not uncommon for the defendants in a passing off case to say "We/our business/our products are so rubbish that nobody could possibly think that we are GinormoCorp", but this doesn't often work.
Other fun passing off cases include Peter Stringfellow v Stringfellows Chips. This one led to Leonard Hoffmann QC (later Mr Justice Hoffmann, Lord Justice Hoffmann, and eventually Lord Hoffmann) being pictured in a tabloid, enjoying the entertainment at Stringfellow's with a young lady who was not his niece sitting on his knee. See also US Budweiser losing its attempt to close down Czech Budweiser.
It is not uncommon for the defendants in a passing off case to say "We/our business/our products are so rubbish that nobody could possibly think that we are GinormoCorp", but this doesn't often work.
Other fun passing off cases include Peter Stringfellow v Stringfellows Chips. This one led to Leonard Hoffmann QC (later Mr Justice Hoffmann, Lord Justice Hoffmann, and eventually Lord Hoffmann) being pictured in a tabloid, enjoying the entertainment at Stringfellow's with a young lady who was not his niece sitting on his knee. See also US Budweiser losing its attempt to close down Czech Budweiser.
Breadvan72 said:
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2. Claiming to have a trademark that you do not have may be a misleading advertisement. You could get sued for this, or be subject to regulatory action.
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Just to ask a clarity question on this, it was my understanding that a trademark (tm) does not have to be registered and is just an intention to register, whereas a copyright (c) must be registered?2. Claiming to have a trademark that you do not have may be a misleading advertisement. You could get sued for this, or be subject to regulatory action.
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Weezywee said:
Breadvan72 said:
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2. Claiming to have a trademark that you do not have may be a misleading advertisement. You could get sued for this, or be subject to regulatory action.
.
Just to ask a clarity question on this, it was my understanding that a trademark (tm) does not have to be registered and is just an intention to register, whereas a copyright (c) must be registered?2. Claiming to have a trademark that you do not have may be a misleading advertisement. You could get sued for this, or be subject to regulatory action.
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Unregistered trademarks can in effect be protected by the common law/equitable doctrine of passing off.
NB: things are different in other jurisdictions, notably in the USA.
covboy said:
Similar vein. I've just set up a new website (simple name - my initials in the title) When I google the name another site (US based I think) comes up - Same name but lower case initials - Should I think again ( My site is not for businaess purposes)
The answer depends (1) on what the other site does, and where any business associated with it is operating;
(2) on what you plan to do with your website.
If there is no overlap in terms of activity and/or places of operation, then there may not be a problem.
In very broad summary, the basis for a passing off claim is that business X has an established trading reputation and "goodwill" in a particular market, and that business Y, accidentally or on purpose, is or may be confusing potential customers of X by using a name, logo, get up etc that is similar to that of X.
Breadvan72 said:
Other fun passing off cases include Peter Stringfellow v Stringfellows Chips. This one led to Leonard Hoffmann QC (later Mr Justice Hoffmann, Lord Justice Hoffmann, and eventually Lord Hoffmann) being pictured in a tabloid, enjoying the entertainment at Stringfellow's with a young lady who was not his niece sitting on his knee. See also US Budweiser losing its attempt to close down Czech Budweiser.
Must admit this one got me. Always though the Czech Bud was a less st version of the US version by the same company. Nope! Proper and old school Czech beer. It got into the UK market before the appalling US swill did. When the lawsuit happened, US Bud had recently launched in the UK, and its only prior UK market was selling to US service personnel on UK bases, so it was the far superior Czech Bud that had the established goodwill in the wider market. US Bud tried to buy Czech Bud out, but failed in that also, IIRC.
In a similar vein, BV, I was once almost a victim of a reasonable scale fraud involving a "fake" cash machine which appeared in the window of a new business that had opened in a lock up shop near my flat, which was also a clear case of "passing off". The posh-looking green and gold signage proclaimed it to be "Harrods Financial Services" and the ATM, which IIRC had been bought/borrowed/stolen from a scrap yard, allowed one to slide in one's card but then showed an error message and did not dispense cash. Here's a story in the Indepdendent from the time which doesn't mention the signage, but I remember clearly my sister remarking on it (a law graduate of Kingston Polytechnic - as it was then) and doubting its connection to the little North African's emporium over West. The first I knew of it was when my bank stopped my card, telling me it may have been compromised. They kept me in the dark until the case had gone to court. I was one of those who tried the ATM and failed to get any money out. Luckily the scammers got caught quite soon afterwards and my funds were not appropriated.
ETA Seems they were still at it in prison. Hooking up with the only road rager more famous than Ronnie Pickering https://www.independent.co.uk/news/prison-for-hard...
ETA Seems they were still at it in prison. Hooking up with the only road rager more famous than Ronnie Pickering https://www.independent.co.uk/news/prison-for-hard...
Edited by Pothole on Thursday 16th April 11:46
Breadvan72 said:
In very broad summary, the basis for a passing off claim is that business X has an established trading reputation and "goodwill" in a particular market, and that business Y, accidentally or on purpose, is or may be confusing potential customers of X by using a name, logo, get up etc that is similar to that of X.
Nicely summarised, but just to add that confusion alone will not be enough to prove misrepresentation. Consumers must actually be (or likely to be) deceived and believe that the goods or services of the person doing the passing off are those of the person who is complaining about their rights being infringed. That said, passing off can be established even though most people aren't deceived. Claiming to have a registered trademark is an offence under Section 95 of the Trade Marks Act 1994, and a person so claiming is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (which I believe is currently £1,000).
In the US, as in the UK, copyright subsists automatically upon creation of the right in question. However, in the US you need to have registered your copyright before you can sue for infringement. As BV rightly said, you can't register copyright here in the UK.
A trademark is simply a mark of trade - it does not need to be registered - the fact that you use it in itself establishes it as a trademark...
you can put TM next to such an unregistered trademark
registering a trademark - ups the ante in terms of easier to prove that it is yours, and easier to pursue others - you can put an R in a circle next to a registered trademark
https://www.gov.uk/topic/intellectual-property/tra... is a good overview of IP in this area
worth doing properly as it can lead to all sorts of pain otherwise!
you can put TM next to such an unregistered trademark
registering a trademark - ups the ante in terms of easier to prove that it is yours, and easier to pursue others - you can put an R in a circle next to a registered trademark
https://www.gov.uk/topic/intellectual-property/tra... is a good overview of IP in this area
worth doing properly as it can lead to all sorts of pain otherwise!
covboy said:
Similar vein. I've just set up a new website (simple name - my initials in the title) When I google the name another site (US based I think) comes up - Same name but lower case initials - Should I think again ( My site is not for businaess purposes)
Here's an example of a real life case.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._MikeRow...
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