For you engineering types - How do automotive scanners work?

[alabbasi]

I understand how OBD2 works. It's a published standard that all automotive manufacturers to report emissions related information from the computer to a diagnostic tool.

The question that's been bugging me for some time is how the likes of Autel Snapon etc get into manufacturer specific systems. I can use my autel scanner to test door locks, re program ECU's to new vin #, activate ABS modules and align an immobilizer key to a car.

I'm assuming that they're not getting this information from the manufacturers because they're asking nicely and that there must be a published API that describes all of this stuff. Any ideas?

[imagineifyeswill]

Block exemption rules forces the manufacturers to release all that details for general use but they are allowed to charge for it thats why annual scanner software updates are so expensive, the suppliers have to pay licence fees to the manufacturers.

[peterperkins]

They pay large amounts to the manufacturers to be given the details on the deeper diagnostics info and protocols.

Very little is in the public domain, it's closely guarded and expensive..

Standard OBDII protocols and tools have limited access and info..

Edited by peterperkins on Monday 20th April 05:36

[alabbasi]

Thanks all. I have a Bentley Arnage that I'm working on which does not seem to be covered by Autel. It's a 2003 and they seem to cover the 2006+ models but not the earlier cars or the crew RR. I'm wondering if an older scan tool would do the job,, The RR specific tool s hideously expensive.

[mtrehy]

where in the country are you? I know a sensibly priced independent with all RR&B stuff.

[alabbasi]

I'm in Texas, USA. We have dealer and independents here but this car has a lot of fleas so I really need to do my own work to make it worth my while.

Thanks

[stevieturbo]

And no doubt a lot is reverse engineering.

Ideally ask the supplier of various diagnostic equipment what theirs are capable of, and what vehicles. If they cannot answer....don't buy !

And a longshot....from Youtube, the likes of Paul Danner/ScannerDanner might know ? Or he seems to affiliate with different suppliers of stuff, AESWave being one. Maybe they have something ?

Try here too ?

http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/

[alabbasi]

stevieturbo said:

And no doubt a lot is reverse engineering.

Ideally ask the supplier of various diagnostic equipment what theirs are capable of, and what vehicles. If they cannot answer....don't buy !

And a longshot....from Youtube, the likes of Paul Danner/ScannerDanner might know ? Or he seems to affiliate with different suppliers of stuff, AESWave being one. Maybe they have something ?

Try here too ?

http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/

Most suppliers provide coverage information for their current lineup but as the scanners get newer, they drop support for the older cars. Example of this is Autel which offers a 38pin connector for pre obd2 Mercedes Benz but no longer cover that many cars. From what I can see, it's just the 99+ R129 SL.

[stevieturbo]

alabbasi said:

Most suppliers provide coverage information for their current lineup but as the scanners get newer, they drop support for the older cars. Example of this is Autel which offers a 38pin connector for pre obd2 Mercedes Benz but no longer cover that many cars. From what I can see, it's just the 99+ R129 SL.

Which is why you need to ask the suppliers, or those familiar with using such product. There is still lots of old equipment out there.

Although the older a lot of that stuff gets...the less capable overall the aftermarket scanners were back then. So they may not even be able to touch the systems in the car you need.

[annodomini2]

Newer stuff, post 2012ish use a protocol called UDS (Universal Diagnostic Services)

The commands are standardised, you just need to know the id for the ECU (which you can scan) and what the fault codes mean.

[Chris32345]

They will go direct to the ECU manufacturers for a lot of information
E.g magenti marrelli Bosch ect

[stevieturbo]

alabbasi said:

Thanks all. I have a Bentley Arnage that I'm working on which does not seem to be covered by Autel. It's a 2003 and they seem to cover the 2006+ models but not the earlier cars or the crew RR. I'm wondering if an older scan tool would do the job,, The RR specific tool s hideously expensive.

Although the other question is...what is the job ?

Many things can be fixed with regular diagnostic work and testing

[alabbasi]

There's a couple of things. The car is an auction car, i need to align keys to the alarm system and work on resetting air bags etc. Not engine specific which I could tackle with my Autel. This is going into systems.

[annodomini2]

Chris32345 said:

They will go direct to the ECU manufacturers for a lot of information
E.g magenti marrelli Bosch ect

Depends on the supplier, the big outfits e.g. Snap-on etc, will probably pay.

Smaller suppliers will typically have a "mate" in the local dealerships and reverse engineer the setup.

Or they'll rent a car for a couple of weeks and reverse engineer it.

[Chris32345]

annodomini2 said:

Depends on the supplier, the big outfits e.g. Snap-on etc, will probably pay.

Smaller suppliers will typically have a "mate" in the local dealerships and reverse engineer the setup.

Or they'll rent a car for a couple of weeks and reverse engineer it.

Very few on the small manufacturers will anything beyond the basic OBD2 functions other the the Chinese knockoffs anyway

[stevieturbo]

https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/bentley-continen...

[alabbasi]

stevieturbo said:

https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/bentley-continen...

That's not the one. This is what I need: https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/bentley-arnage-o...

[imagineifyeswill]

Theres a guy on YouTube, Car Wizard, think his trading name is Omega Auto Services, he's in USA but not sure whereabouts but he has Bentley/RR capable diagnostics.

[stevieturbo]

alabbasi said:

That's not the one. This is what I need: https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/bentley-arnage-o...

Problem solved then lol.

[alabbasi]

Kind of, I was hoping to find a cheaper solution seeing as I only have a couple of cars that need it, but i might have to bite the bullet