need an urgent advise on contract change

[Steve Dyson]

My company has asked me to work 4 days a week with 20% salary cut.

I asked HR about the consequences of not accepting the new change and they said they can't impose any changes and there are no consequences.

In reply, i asked them if my contract can be terminated if i don't consent to the agreement. HR came back saying that’s not the intention, this is a voluntary request to help the business manage through a period of global uncertainty.

My question is, is there any legal binding to what HR told me? They can still go ahead and terminate my contract with notice.

Also, they asked me to email them back by friday but i am off for a week, am i oblige to make a decision while i am off work ?

(Due to my financial situation i did ask my company to review my agreement and reduce the salary cap to 10% but they didn't accept it)

This is a massive global company worth over 20 billion dollars so they are not going bust.

Edited by Steve Dyson on Tuesday 21st April 20:21

[PrinceRupert]

How long have you worked there?

If less than two years, they can give you contractual notice and say see you later. If longer, they would have to follow a fair redundancy programme. However if you say no, suspect they will find a way to have you at the top of any redundancy list...

[SydneyBridge]

How long do they intend to keep this in place for?

Is the company likely to go bust as a result of the current lockdown? If so, then you should possibly agree if the alternative is no job

[cossy400]

Steve Dyson said:

My company has asked me to work 4 days a week with 20% salary cut.

I asked HR about the consequences of not accepting the new change and they said they can't impose any changes and there are no consequences.

In reply, i asked them if my contract can be terminated if i don't consent to the agreement. HR came back saying that’s not the intention, this is a voluntary request to help the business manage through a period of global uncertainty.

My question is, is there any legal binding to what HR told me? They can still go ahead and terminate my contract with notice.

Also, they asked me to email them back by friday but i am off for a week, am i oblige to make a decision while i am off work ?

(Due to my financial situation i did ask my company to review my agreement and reduce the salary cap to 10% but they didn't accept it)

I cannot help with your query but a 20% and keep the apple cart happy would be my way of thiking.

20% loss now against a possible 100% loss in the future, sadly everyones got financial situations, the question is how would you cope if they couldnt pay you.

Good friend of mine, is shielding company is still running so no option for furlough as they arent prepared to go through the hassle for one member of staff.

Bottom line 12 weeks at £94 SSP, a drop of £500 a week roughly, "luckily hes got a car he can shift on to ease the fall a little"

[Steve Dyson]

PrinceRupert said:

How long have you worked there?

If less than two years, they can give you contractual notice and say see you later. If longer, they would have to follow a fair redundancy programme. However if you say no, suspect they will find a way to have you at the top of any redundancy list...

Over 3 years.

They TUPED me over to other company two months ago and start date would be around Aug.I could have accepted the new changes if they had not TUPED me. I worked really hard without any pay raise which were promised to me twice.

Edited by Steve Dyson on Tuesday 21st April 20:22

[shep1001]

Why not suggest you will give them back 1 day holiday per week for x weeks to keep full pay. Accrued holidays sit on the balance sheet.

[Steve Dyson]

shep1001 said:

Why not suggest you will give them back 1 day holiday per week for x weeks to keep full pay. Accrued holidays sit on the balance sheet.

Already discussed and the answer was no.

[Steve Dyson]

I think they can furlough me by next monday if i don't accept the offer by friday which i don't want. Looks like i have no other choice but to accept the change

[deeb0]

Steve Dyson said:

I think they can furlough me by next monday if i don't accept the offer by friday which i don't want. Looks like i have no other choice but to accept the change

Sorry to hear that, on the plus side it's one less working day a week , at least the cut is in line with less work

[HughG]

deeb0 said:

Sorry to hear that, on the plus side it's one less working day a week , at least the cut is in line with less work

Indeed, we’ve all been asked to take a 20% cut with no reduction in hours/days.

[Muzzer79]

Steve Dyson said:

I think they can furlough me by next monday if i don't accept the offer by friday which i don't want. Looks like i have no other choice but to accept the change

Just make sure you have a defined time period on the salary cut.

[Tomo1971]

And that any future redundancy is on the terms of the salary now, not post 20% cut.

[anonymous-user]

An employer cannot compel a change to a contract but an employee's refusal to agree a change may give the employer a potentially fair reason to dismiss (sometimes offering to re-employ on the new terms). The current emergency might support an employer in showing that such a dismissal was fair.

How can you be sure that the company will not become insolvent? Even very large companies can do so rapidly - large reported turnover or profit figures don't prevent this.

In the current circumstances, taking the pay cut may be the prudent choice.

[anonymous-user]

The excellent Meriel Schindler of Withers writes on this subject in the FT -

https://www.ft.com/content/37a97ff8-804c-40e3-83e3...

[TurnedEmo]

Breadvan72 said:

The excellent Meriel Schindler of Withers writes on this subject in the FT -

https://www.ft.com/content/37a97ff8-804c-40e3-83e3...

That sends you to a Paywall.

This doesn't, or doesn't for me, anyway.

https://www.ft.com/content/37a97ff8-804c-40e3-83e3...

[hotchy]

Steve Dyson said:

I think they can furlough me by next monday if i don't accept the offer by friday which i don't want. Looks like i have no other choice but to accept the change

It's less hours so when busier again you'll soon be back to working that extra day and get your 20% back. Not that you'll want it, 3 days off a week sounds great to me.

[Pegscratch]

Breadvan72 said:

How can you be sure that the company will not become insolvent? Even very large companies can do so rapidly - large reported turnover or profit figures don't prevent this.

Sage advice. Carillion? Debenhams? John Lewis? Comet? Toys R Us? Woolworths? Patisserie Valerie?

All massive companies that were/are "too big to fail" but have or are looking scarily like they may fail. If they're asking you to take 20%, find a way to make 20% work. Your alternatives are take the 20%, the extra day off, be seen as a team player (although it looks like you've nuked that bridge already) and hopefully be remembered for it, or to take the 20% and spend all day, every day wishing you had something to do and know that your company will not be starting positively with you come review time.

I'll add that I appreciate that not everyone can be so cavalier about a 20% cut and sometimes it can be a real kicker, but when you say things like this:

Steve Dyson said:

This is a massive global company worth over 20 billion dollars so they are not going bust.

You come across as having a massive chip on your shoulder and like you're being stubborn out of principle "because they should be able to pay" rather than out of need.

Another thing to consider is that if it really does screw you to a cross, being furloughed means that's it for you - 80%, that's your lot. If you take the day less still employed then you can clear off to a supermarket or otherwise as a part time worker as you see fit. I would challenge that if your contract restricts you from doing this then unless you are in a market where you'd be working with a direct competitor in your second job or it made elements of your primary employment impossible (call out etc), you should be able to approach your employer and seek a relaxing of that restriction as a show of understanding for you taking the cut.

Edited by Pegscratch on Wednesday 22 April 09:50

[Steve Dyson]

Thanks for all your replies.

Just to give you an update, HR told me they are not planning to furlough me and also they don't have any plan to terminate my contract. They said its voluntary request and i am not under any pressure to accept the change.

If i don't accept then it could be used in a selection criteria against me if there were redundancies. Also if i get furloughed then there is a higher risk of me being made redundant once this is all over as it would show that i am disposable.

I am going to get some clarity on my TUPE situation, i think my start date is around Aug this year but like to know if i will still be on 4 days a week schedule.

[Jasandjules]

Steve Dyson said:

My company has asked me to work 4 days a week with 20% salary cut.

I presume this would then be below the sum you require to live on?

Does your contract preclude you from working elsewhere? If not, can you do anything on the day a week you don't work for them? In the alternative whilst the contract is being varied also remove any clause preventing your working for an alternate employer..

This sounds like a company trying an alternative to making redundancies to me, and bearing in mind how much you might get should that happen, and how difficult it may be to obtain alternative employment going forward...

[Steve Dyson]

Jasandjules said:

I presume this would then be below the sum you require to live on?

Does your contract preclude you from working elsewhere? If not, can you do anything on the day a week you don't work for them? In the alternative whilst the contract is being varied also remove any clause preventing your working for an alternate employer..

This sounds like a company trying an alternative to making redundancies to me, and bearing in mind how much you might get should that happen, and how difficult it may be to obtain alternative employment going forward...

Yes it is below the sum i require to support my family. I am the sole earner and there are 5 of us. My contract doesn't allow me to work anywhere else.

I am renting and i will have to move out if i stay on the same salary because rental price is high where i live so moving to different city and change of schools and etc.