15000 Ventilators - do we still need them?

[mondeoman]

Just watched a time-lapse video of Airbus factory being turned around into manufacturing cells for 15,000 ventilators.

Huge effort, massive achievement and congratulations to everyone involved.

But - we're past the peak, so what are we going to do with 15,000 surplus to capacity ventilators?

[glazbagun]

We're past the peak because we're in lockdown.

As we open up and socialise more the numbers will grow again, so presumably having more capacity means we can be more open and run closer to normal at the cost of very-busy-but-coping intensive care units.

I'm sure there will be an optimum balance, but I don't know what.

[gruffalo]

Yes we still need them, this is a long way from over.

[Noodle1982]

No, we don't need them.

[anonymous-user]

Great effort, some insurance for when people are let out again / or decide to anyway !

Hopefully not needed.
But Covid-20/21 etc is bound to eminate from China in a few years, bearing in mind that they do on a depressingly regular basis & no sign of cleaning up their act.
We’ll be better prepared next time ..

[Ratski83]

It was just PR guff much like the call for NHS volunteers of which hardly anyone heard back or building a 4000 capacity hospital in less than a week to house 20 patients.

Make a song and dance about appearing to do the right thing while doing SFA.

Edited by Ratski83 on Friday 24th April 08:55

[anonymous-user]

Ratski83 said:

It was just PR guff much like the call for NHS volunteers of which hardly anyone heard back.

Make a song and dance about appearing to do the right thing while doing SFA.

Loads of my coworkers are furloughed and doing ambulance work. Either that or they’ve stolen NHS overalls and are going around in fake ambulances on social media.

I suppose it depends on roles and areas you’re in.

[vaud]

mondeoman said:

Just watched a time-lapse video of Airbus factory being turned around into manufacturing cells for 15,000 ventilators.

Huge effort, massive achievement and congratulations to everyone involved.

But - we're past the peak, so what are we going to do with 15,000 surplus to capacity ventilators?

Keep some. Give some to less developed countries who don't have many?

[anonymous-user]

glazbagun said:

We're past the peak because we're in lockdown.

As we open up and socialise more the numbers will grow again, so presumably having more capacity means we can be more open and run closer to normal at the cost of very-busy-but-coping intensive care units.

I'm sure there will be an optimum balance, but I don't know what.

This.

As soon as we have more ventilators and all these large temporary hospitals have been finished and tested, there will likely be a phased return to 'normality' over the next few weeks as various industries are encouraged back to work.

The numbers of infections will then begin to spike again and the ventilators and temporary overspill hospitals will be begin to receive patients, but hopefully in numbers that do not overwhelm the bed spaces.

This will continue until enough people have contracted the virus and we see new cases naturally decay away.

[hutchst]

In the modern media world, we only need what we we haven't got. If we get the ventilators, it'll turn out we needed something different. Because a new expert will be found to say so.

[Camoradi]

vaud said:

mondeoman said:

Just watched a time-lapse video of Airbus factory being turned around into manufacturing cells for 15,000 ventilators.

Huge effort, massive achievement and congratulations to everyone involved.

But - we're past the peak, so what are we going to do with 15,000 surplus to capacity ventilators?

Keep some. Give some to less developed countries who don't have many?

Malawi: population 18.4 million. Ventilators: 3

[grumbledoak]

I get the impression that the use of ventilators has not been that successful and other methods are being used instead. It could well turn out to be a panic measure with ensuing buyers remorse.

[kingofdbrits]

I read that ventilators aren’t always the best solution and have a terrible record with upto 86% of people put on the dying.
So it looks like the drive to procure more was more media than science driven. https://time.com/5818547/ventilators-coronavirus/

[craigjm]

Noodle1982 said:

No, we don't need them.

OK so will you sign a legal document that says if you get Covid you don’t want a ventilator to be used and will take your chances?

Nobody on this thread knows if we need them or not and whether they are surplus to requirements. Consuming media content is very different to being an expert in the field and even they haven’t seen this kind of thing before. Without a crystal ball we have no idea. It’s easy to connect the dots with hindsight.

Similarly with the nightingale hospitals people are saying “there is nobody in them” surely that’s a good thing rather than 4000 deliveries a day to just the excel one and 4000 bodies in the morgue the next or maybe that’s what’s needed to make some people realise this is real.

Edited by craigjm on Friday 24th April 09:20

[RogueTrooper]

Lord Marylebone said:

The numbers of infections will then begin to spike again and the ventilators and temporary overspill hospitals will be begin to receive patients, but hopefully in numbers that do not overwhelm the bed spaces.

... or the available doctors and nurses.

[craigjm]

kingofdbrits said:

I read that ventilators aren’t always the best solution and have a terrible record with upto 86% of people put on the dying.
So it looks like the drive to procure more was more media than science driven. https://time.com/5818547/ventilators-coronavirus/

Yes I have seen evidence which suggest similar but how can you say it was media rather than science driven? Until they start to use these things which are standard procedure for people who can’t breath how would they know against a virus they haven’t seen? Would be too late then to go “oh I think we need more ventilators” whilst people are dying

[Jinx]

craigjm said:

kingofdbrits said:

I read that ventilators aren’t always the best solution and have a terrible record with upto 86% of people put on the dying.
So it looks like the drive to procure more was more media than science driven. https://time.com/5818547/ventilators-coronavirus/

Yes I have seen evidence which suggest similar but how can you say it was media rather than science driven? Until they start to use these things which are standard procedure for people who can’t breath how would they know against a virus they haven’t seen? Would be too late then to go “oh I think we need more ventilators” whilst people are dying

Or they saved 14% of people who would have died otherwise. What was the survival rate of TB victims and Iron lungs? When things get that bad you need a ventilator things are pretty bad indeed.

[Noodle1982]

craigjm said:

Noodle1982 said:

No, we don't need them.

OK so will you sign a legal document that says if you get Covid you don’t want a ventilator to be used and will take your chances?

Nobody on this thread knows if we need them or not and whether they are surplus to requirements. Consuming media content is very different to being an expert in the field and even they haven’t seen this kind of thing before. Without a crystal ball we have no idea. It’s easy to connect the dots with hindsight.

Similarly with the nightingale hospitals people are saying “there is nobody in them” surely that’s a good thing rather than 4000 deliveries a day to just the excel one and 4000 bodies in the morgue the next or maybe that’s what’s needed to make some people realise this is real.

Edited by craigjm on Friday 24th April 09:20

The question was do we need 15,000 ventilators. It wasn't whether I would use a ventilator or not.

Do we need 15,000? No.

[vaud]

Noodle1982 said:

The question was do we need 15,000 ventilators. It wasn't whether I would use a ventilator or not.

Do we need 15,000? No.

We don't need them at the moment. But this virus on not defeated and will never be eradicated.

[GT72]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.