Furlough Refusal

[Lund]

Hi all,

I hope you’re all well. I have spotted a couple of threads in relation to Covid19 furloughed employees, but unfortunately none cover my situation.

In short my partners employer (a fairly popular high street retailer) refuse to furlough her as they simply state “we mightn’t be able to claim it back”.

Our situation is unique as we are currently stuck in the Philippines (Island of Cebu) due to the unfortunate covid19 situation and she is currently unable to return to work. Our flights were cancelled and all domestic travel, including movement between islands is currently ceased. We’re on an enhanced community quarantine much like in the U.K.

There have been reparation flights available, but these are from the main island of Manila (where most of the covid problems are) and are in the region of £1000 (non-refundable) to London. Our travel insurance won’t confirm whether or not they can cover this amount, but simply forward us to an FAQ page.

I feel she is not receiving the full support from the company and they have also said that she’s not eligible as their stores are currently open?

As I am sure you can appreciate, she is hoping they can find out definitively if they’re able to take advantage of the furlough scheme. And if not, the reasons why. But they simply haven’t provided this and aren’t doing what they can to support her.

It is the governments aim to protect financial victims of covid and they state on the Gov website that if an employer needs it, the company should try to do, but this seems not to be the case.

I have been in touch with my local MP and ACAS, whom have said that employers should be as accommodating as possible to employees during this crisis. And I believe she is entitled to be furloughed in her current employment, but I suspect they simply cannot be bothered for just one employee.

I myself am furloughed and my situation is the same. Does she have a leg to stand on so to speak?

Thanks,
Lund

[cossy400]

Sorry to hear about your current situation.

Friend of mine who drinks in mylocal is in a sort of same position, basically he gaffer wont apply for it just for him as hes the only person off work.

And seeing as the bosses or HR are the ones that need to apply, then hes stuffed.

Very much the same in terms of the business is still operating etc and has not shut.

[Twig62]

Is the retailer she works for still open and trading or have they had to close as they are deemed to be non essential with all the other staff on furlough ?

[anonymous-user]

When did you go there?

[robbieduncan]

My understanding was hat furlough was an option for the employer, not the employee. If the employer is open for business then the employee should be turning up for work. If the employee is unavailable then that is the employees problem.

[Lund]

cossy400 said:

Sorry to hear about your current situation.

Friend of mine who drinks in mylocal is in a sort of same position, basically he gaffer wont apply for it just for him as hes the only person off work.

And seeing as the bosses or HR are the ones that need to apply, then hes stuffed.

Very much the same in terms of the business is still operating etc and has not shut.

Thanks for your reply, sounds like a similar situation, I hope he gets the outcome he desires.

Twig62 said:

Is the retailer she works for still open and trading or have they had to close as they are deemed to be non essential with all the other staff on furlough ?

The retailer is currently still open, as they sell goods such as food & toilet paper and so qualify as an essential store.

The Spruce Goose said:

When did you go there?

We arrived here 02/03/20. At the time there were no known covid19 cases in Cebu and travel was as normal.

[Lund]

robbieduncan said:

My understanding was hat furlough was an option for the employer, not the employee. If the employer is open for business then the employee should be turning up for work. If the employee is unavailable then that is the employees problem.

I questioned this too but, it states that employees are eligible if; ‘staying where you are if you cannot return to uk’. Coronavirus job retention scheme is available to whilst abroad (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-staying-where-you-are-if-you-cannot-return-to-the-uk#if-you-are-concerned-about-your-employment-in-the-uk).

[Evanivitch]

Unfortunately, no one is entitled to furlough.

I'm also confused why you are still in the Philippines. I appreciate there's a cost implication, but it hardly helps your cause if you've yet to return to the UK.

[robbieduncan]

Lund said:

I questioned this too but, it states that employees are eligible if; ‘staying where you are if you cannot return to uk’. Coronavirus job retention scheme is available to whilst abroad (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-staying-where-you-are-if-you-cannot-return-to-the-uk#if-you-are-concerned-about-your-employment-in-the-uk).

Eligible if the employer chooses, not entitled if the employee chooses.

[ChocolateFrog]

Why haven't you paid the £1000 pp to return, you can argue the toss later, it's hardly a life changing sum of money and your OH could get back to work.

[DanL]

What’s the current situation? Is your other half burning through holiday, not being paid, or being paid as normal with the expectation she will make up the time somehow?

In terms of the timing of your trip, I won’t comment except to say I was due to be in Manila the first week of March, and the company (wisely) cancelled the trip due to the developing situation. I feel it was pretty clear at the time that you might be able to get out there, but that getting back would be a struggle.

When did the Philippines go into lockdown?

[Lund]

Evanivitch said:

Unfortunately, no one is entitled to furlough.

I'm also confused why you are still in the Philippines. I appreciate there's a cost implication, but it hardly helps your cause if
you've yet to return to the UK.

Yes, it’s a tricky situation. Again, our situation is unique as we’re lucky to be able to stay put with family on the island. There are currently no covid19 cases in our province, but if we travel we increase the risk of exposure. We would need to travel to Manila (which is where the majority of the problems are) and then the flight is to London and we live in North West, U.K. I do appreciate what you’re saying. She is part of a WhatsApp group for other stranded Brits and a lot of others are in a similar situation, and yet are being furloughed.

robbieduncan said:

Lund said:

I questioned this too but, it states that employees are eligible if; ‘staying where you are if you cannot return to uk’. Coronavirus job retention scheme is available to whilst abroad (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-staying-where-you-are-if-you-cannot-return-to-the-uk#if-you-are-concerned-about-your-employment-in-the-uk).

Eligible if the employer chooses, not entitled if the employee chooses.

Sure, makes sense. It’s a great shame as the employer isn’t really ‘willing’ as they are able to help. We’re at the mercy of the employer and having a real time convincing them to help. My partner has worked there 6 years and has always been flexible to meet the needs of the company with store refits and travelling around the U.K. to help.

Nothing quite like a refusal to a government grant to feel appreciated! I feel for her.

[Ham_and_Jam]

The simple answer here is - your wife IS eligible for the JRS furlough scheme, unfortunately the company she works for has to place your wife on furlough. You cannot place yourself on furlough.

There is no way around this. Been asked many times.

[Jasandjules]

What is the employer actually doing? Is this being taken as holiday? Why did you not return home before the flights were stopped?

Frankly the failure of your wife to be available for work can render her liable to termination.....

[geeks]

Jasandjules said:

What is the employer actually doing? Is this being taken as holiday? Why did you not return home before the flights were stopped?

Frankly the failure of your wife to be available for work can render her liable to termination.....

Surely it would be just straight up dismissal? Termination seems a little OTT

[Lund]

Jasandjules said:

What is the employer actually doing? Is this being taken as holiday? Why did you not return home before the flights were stopped?

Frankly the failure of your wife to be available for work can render her liable to termination.....

For the time off booked, yes this was taken as holiday & agreed by the Employer. The employer has since placed her on absent leave (early April) due to the current situation.

In terms of flights home, we did check flights before ours were cancelled, but there were very few flight options from here. If I recall they were around £2000-£4000.

I’m fortunate as in my employer is being flexible and does understand the situation.

[philv]

Lund said:

Jasandjules said:

What is the employer actually doing? Is this being taken as holiday? Why did you not return home before the flights were stopped?

Frankly the failure of your wife to be available for work can render her liable to termination.....

For the time off booked, yes this was taken as holiday & agreed by the Employer. The employer has since placed her on absent leave (early April) due to the current situation.

In terms of flights home, we did check flights before ours were cancelled, but there were very few flight options from here. If I recall they were around £2000-£4000.

I’m fortunate as in my employer is being flexible and does understand the situation.

I cancelled several trips abroad from the end of february.
First of all for safety reasons.
But flights were always going to be cancelled at some point.

I am surprised at the number of people that were still going on holidays, cruises etc until it was no longer possible.
Canceling never looses money, just looses the holiday as the money would have been spent anyway.

Money v safety/risk of being stranded/work consequences.
A bit of a gamble.

No dig at the op.
Just my thoughts.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Ham_and_Jam said:

The simple answer here is - your wife IS eligible for the JRS furlough scheme, unfortunately the company she works for has to place your wife on furlough. You cannot place yourself on furlough.

There is no way around this. Been asked many times.

Based on the information provided you are wrong. She is not eligible.

The scheme is to cover employees where the employer has no work for them to do, not for those stuck in a foreign country.

[Lund]

philv said:

Lund said:

Jasandjules said:

What is the employer actually doing? Is this being taken as holiday? Why did you not return home before the flights were stopped?

Frankly the failure of your wife to be available for work can render her liable to termination.....

For the time off booked, yes this was taken as holiday & agreed by the Employer. The employer has since placed her on absent leave (early April) due to the current situation.

In terms of flights home, we did check flights before ours were cancelled, but there were very few flight options from here. If I recall they were around £2000-£4000.

I’m fortunate as in my employer is being flexible and does understand the situation.

I cancelled several trips abroad from the end of february.
First of all for safety reasons.
But flights were always going to be cancelled at some point.

I am surprised at the number of people that were still going on holidays, cruises etc until it was no longer possible.
Canceling never looses money, just looses the holiday as the money would have been spent anyway.

Money v safety/risk of being stranded/work consequences.
A bit of a gamble.

No dig at the op.
Just my thoughts.

No problem :-) it mightn’t have any bearing on things, but this trip wasn’t intended as a holiday, but to see family whom we haven’t visited for 6 years. My partners grandmother isn’t too well and it was a case of now or never.

I do appreciate what’s been said, and on reflection maybe travelling at the time wasn’t the best idea, but all was still in-line with the governments travel advice at the time and there were no known covid19 cases here. Things have certainly taken off since!

[Evanivitch]

philv said:

Canceling never looses money, just looses the holiday as the money would have been spent anyway.

Quoted because I can't quite believe someone actually thinks that.